Hello Board - Nice to meet you all.

I am entertaining an offer to relocate to Shanghai to work as a marketing professional in the legal industry. Currently, I am well-employed in the US as a marketing professional in a law firm.

My questions:

- I make 100,000 USD per year (about 70K euros, I think).
- We are used to living at this level of income, and I'll need it to handle my never-ending student loans.
- 60,000 Euros is the first pay offer
- Is this a good salary to continue our standard of living from the US to Shanghai? It is a pay-decrease, once adjusted to USD - but I am struggling to understand how the cost of living comes in to play.

Maybe this is a fortune in Shanghai and we'd have no worries in the world ... or maybe not.

It's a HUGE decision for me as it means relocating my wife and small child.

I have not discussed relocation package, housing allowance, benefits, or bonus structure (if any). This is just the baseline.

Thanks for any advice you might offer.

That's about 50K RMB/month, you could live well - certainly better than many.
Too many things to consider, do you speak Chinese, knowledge of marketing techniques here, what is the target audience to capture, etc.
I would say BEFORE you do anything, come over for a 2 week visit to see what life is all about here, you may hate it and be doomed - esp. with a baby.
Some come over and can't survive 6 months.
Reading about things and truely experiencing them on a day-to-day basis are completely different.
If you are doing so well in the States, why rock the boat?

On the one hand you could save a fortune on that salary in Shanghai and on the other hand you could have no problem spending every $,Euro, Rmb of it easily as well. Really depends on the lifestyle you plan to lead here. Entertainment, for example can be very expensive at places that cater to westerners in Shanghai. You can easily eat a nourishing breakfast in Shanghai for US$.75 or you can spend up to US$150 as as well if you wish. You don't necessarily get what you pay for in Shanghai and this city caters to all income levels so it is up to you to decide how much you want to spend, where you want to spend it and what you consider normal for your lifestyle.

Your question is really about you, not about Shanghai.

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Where are you in USA? If in NY or LA, 100k is very minimal to live barely ok (think about it, thats 5k+ a month take-home, not even enough for renting a nice pad in Manhattan), but in IA or MN you would be rolling large.

In general, if you need to duplicate your USA style of living standard, it will cost the same or even more in Shanghai.
If you can live like a local, then your money would go much further than it would in USA.

root wrote:Cost of expat life content:
1) school/kindrgarten -$15000/year
2) accomondation $10000/year
3) food, transportation $5000/year
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Total: ~$30.000

Same same like in New York, USA

10k a year living in New York??? where???
a 600 sq-ft basement apartment in Bronx??????

come on ppl stop acting you know it all when you really have no clue.

fWerrF - and you need to share space with rats, roaches, homeless drunks/bums, hookers and junkies!

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well thats what i said, bronx, or washington heights, or harlem, believe me, you do not want to live there.

decent parts of manhattan will run you close to 3k, for a nice 1 bed ~750 sq-ft.

remember, everywhere in the world its the same, location, location, location.

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I thought Expats were usually paid more to live and work in China not less.

root wrote:That is great news ! That's mean NY property bring instant profit from rent. And here(not in SH) i rent apt with sea view for 1700 rmb/m ($250), market price for that apt. is $150k (88 m2)

Ugh ....
do you have any idea, how much that decently located 750 sq-ft 1-bedroom cost? close to a miilion USD.
do you have any idea, whats the monthly mortgage payment on a million USD? your rent will not remotely cover the rent let alone make any money on it.

The average sq-ft price in a good Manhattan location is $1200-1400 USD. Your rent income is never on par with your cost (mortgage, taxes, common charge, etc etc etc).

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it all depends on life style.
there are plenty of places in USA, where 200k USD can get you an acre with 4000 sq-ft, even a pool.
Some people will be happily living there, some people will be bored outta their mind.

Big cities, around the world, are expensive because everyone wants to be there.
If you are buying to live, who cares if there is bubble in the market or not.
if you are buying to flip (re-sell), then as long as you buy low sell high, it's all good.

ziccawei wrote:I thought Expats were usually paid more to live and work in China not less.

I don't think that's always true, we always offer less but point out the huge daily savings and so far it's not a problem especially with the economy back home being so grim people jump at the chance to come here. I think it also depends on whether it's voluntary or if the company is insisting you relocate.

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cincolaters, if you want more help, let us know what other benefits your employer will grant you. Accomodation, food allowance, transportation allowance, health insurance, flight home...
Who is going to pay for your income tax in China?
How much are you giving to the banks every month (student loan)?

root wrote:

fWerrF wrote:Big cities, around the world, are expensive because everyone wants to be there.

And i have a lot of friends who rentet out own apt. in big cities and downshiftet to Thailand / Asia for relaxing. Who come to big city? Probably villager, right? "Ahh, these skycreapers ! Wow, this metro ! Yesss! How many guys like me !" After some years you will got it.

i spend extended times in big cities around the world, but to me, new york city is always new york city.
i like it not because i am a villager and it amazes me. i like it cuz it fits my life style the best. i mean how many cities you can have dinner every night at 10pm, with an array of options and you are never the last person walking out at 12:30am? and of coz this is just one of the many reasons.

let's see if some years later i will "get it"

fWerrF wrote:i like it cuz it fits my life style the best. i mean how many cities you can have dinner every night at 10pm, with an array of options and you are never the last person walking out at 12:30am?

Glasgow and Edinburgh are two. And in Chinese restaurants in Shanghai. I've often eaten out well past 2am. I am surprised, though, that western places here close up so early.

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Humac wrote:

fWerrF wrote:i like it cuz it fits my life style the best. i mean how many cities you can have dinner every night at 10pm, with an array of options and you are never the last person walking out at 12:30am?

Glasgow and Edinburgh are two. And in Chinese restaurants in Shanghai. I've often eaten out well past 2am. I am surprised, though, that western places here close up so early.

i think when you eat at 2am in shanghai, its at shacks.
a proper chinese restaurants for example xiaonanguo or south beauty do not open that late.

in manhattan, you have all options. you can have a $500 a head fancy meal, or $100 a head regualr meal, or $10 a head shack meal, at a trendy place, or a classic place, or a weird looking place. whatever you want, its got it.

fWerrF wrote:i think when you eat at 2am in shanghai, its at shacks.

Not really, although I love the shacks too. Don't know the names, my Chinese is non-existent, but there are a couple of big restaurants I've been to in the early hours. Actually better food than South Beauty but that's only my opinion. There's one hidden down a lane off Nanjing Lu and the other one, much posher, in Changle Lu. Maybe they're the only two, I don't know.

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root wrote:Seems to me, you, guys not eat their fill during the day and you're attracted to go out a streets in night. Is it a most important goal for living in NY or Sh ? Live for eat ?

I have to eat late because of my work. Much rather be in bed by 10pm!

where is the OP at ...

Humac wrote: Not really, although I love the shacks too. Don't know the names, my Chinese is non-existent, but there are a couple of big restaurants I've been to in the early hours. Actually better food than South Beauty but that's only my opinion. There's one hidden down a lane off Nanjing Lu and the other one, much posher, in Changle Lu. Maybe they're the only two, I don't know.

cool i have to try them out next time.

also, the point is, when you eat out late, its still happening. maybe in shanghai or other cities, you can always find a place open late or 24 hrs, but when you eat there at midnight, place is dead. manhattan is one of the place you eat at midnight and feel like its 7pm in Los Angeles :lol:

root wrote:Seems to me, you, guys not eat their fill during the day and you're attracted to go out a streets in night. Is it a most important goal for living in NY or Sh ? Live for eat ?

i get up too late
i am usually up at 2, so my lunch is at 3:30, and dinner is at 10.
that way if i wanna hit up a joint its 12:30 perfect time. only losers hit up a club before midnight in manhattan

there is nothing wrong to live for eating, i do

Let me try and bring this back to the OP. All in USD 2006
Our rent for a 3bedroom very nice apartment in the French Concession was 40k a year.
Utilities were approx 250 a month.
Package included housing and 2 trips home a year per person(coach).
mobility premium +30% on US pay.
Be sure to ask for tax equalization.
We lived well!
Saved plenty.

My Mom currently lives in Manhattan in nice bldg.
Lower floor, well over 1k per month. 1 bdrm.

Friend in east village paid 750 p.m. for small studio. IN 1974.

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there is a name for that things, owl