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Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby atlas_shrugged » Thu May 24, 2012 2:15 pm

Hi All,

I don't mean to complain, however, I am looking for others feedback and insights to the Starbucks retail experience in Shanghai (and I suppose the rest of China). The baristas do not seem to communicate well with each other leading to long queues, overcharging, and flip-flop of orders where those behind you get their coffee first.

I notice in other locations such as USA, Singapore, Taipei, Hong Kong where this does not seem to happen to the same degree. The baristas will repeat the order to you, and to each other in assembly line fashion to ensure that there is no misunderstanding on the coffee order.

What are your thoughts of why it works elsewhere, but not here in Shanghai? Is it that they are not subject to the same uniform training programs, or is it that because of cultural issues, they do not work well together as a team?

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby vicvic88 » Thu May 24, 2012 2:37 pm

Every morning when I walked in to Wagas for breakfast, i heard the staffs there speak very loud, Good Morning Sir", the greeting sounds absolutely right! But just feel somehow strange, the way they say it and the heavy accent behind it, and even you feel they are not having the same culture...

no wonder, the most of staffs come from rural area, not even shanghai, and they never had the chance to speak to foreigners, except in the shop.
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby beenaroundworld » Thu May 24, 2012 3:14 pm

What else do you want to say? The earth is round? Today is Thursday?

This is China. Total incompetence. This is how they do everything. We all know this.
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby vincesmith_uk » Thu May 24, 2012 3:32 pm

My Partner is a trainer for Starbucks in the UK and I am sure you will know Starbucks are very rigid in their training and corporate image etc.
However, in China most of the Starbucks, if not all, are concessions and basically do what they want.
I have not found any outlet here that accept the Starbucks Card or will give Staff Discount to other Starbucks Employees e.g. my Partner.
Gimme the money seems to be the driving factor here as with everything.
I stopped using them over 2 years ago here
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby BACBill » Thu May 24, 2012 3:58 pm

I too stopped going to Starbucks. I don't find the service that bad here, but I just can't justify in my mind spending RMB38 on some hot flavored water. I instead bought a nice espresso machine and make my own lattes every morning. I must say the service is quite good and while he is frequently in a bad mood, the barista NEVER has anything bad to say about me. According to his wife, however, he is not very good at cleaning up after himself. :D
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby expatguy1 » Thu May 24, 2012 4:02 pm

This is China, where everything is a copy and all service sucks, nuff said?
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby jesslsk » Thu May 24, 2012 4:57 pm

If you've been in Shanghai long enough, you'll forgive such "minor unfairness" and will appreciate Starbucks' service...
Enjoying Shanghai Life...
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby scotch » Thu May 24, 2012 5:28 pm

It takes 3 staff and 10 minutes to prepare a coffee in China...there's nothing you can do
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby condesa » Thu May 24, 2012 5:51 pm

expatguy1 wrote:This is China, where everything is a copy and all service sucks, nuff said?


^ Wise words.

Honestly FOR CHINA, I think Starbucks has 'flawless' service. I had worst service in so many other places. :?

Life in the Middle Kingdom: sucks one way or another :lol:
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby kingofswing » Thu May 24, 2012 7:00 pm

I remember when I went to Starbucks the other week and ordered a grande latte..it was early in the morning and I was the only customer, therefore the shop itself was quite. There were these 3 girls standing behind the counter in a straight row, all lined up ready to do something. I ordered my latte, then the first girl screamed "one grande latte"..the second girl standing just next to her repeated "one grande latte"... and guess what the third girl said... they're just working for the sake of... I don't know! :D
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby garyquinlan008 » Thu May 24, 2012 9:49 pm

But why bother. In fact in Australia, "why bother" refers equally to a Starbucks (most stores now closed) or a Skim, Decaf Latte. Starbucks is warm milk at best with the blandest of coffee flavours.

I have been to several chains here and not experienced such delays as you talk about. Best service experienced so far for friendliness, efficiency and English has been Costas in Hongfeng Road but then they are right on the edge of a beautiful office park made up of mostly western companies
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby daodejing » Fri May 25, 2012 12:00 am

Starbucks has the best trained staff in Shanghai, except for maybe Element Fresh, whose service almost resembles an American restaurant's. I've never been overcharged or noticed anyone behind me in line getting their drinks before me.
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby Shinbone » Fri May 25, 2012 5:57 am

China invented Starbucks.
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby Klick » Fri May 25, 2012 8:11 am

Shinbone wrote:China invented Starbucks.


5000 years ago too, no doubt.
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby Aelius » Fri May 25, 2012 8:23 am

Yes, in the afternoon of the very same day the wheel, gun powder and compass were invented
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby tylerdurden » Fri May 25, 2012 9:47 am

One thing which is exactly the same in Chinese Starbucks outlets: the awfulness of the coffee.

It always tastes burnt. Everywhere in the world. That's because they deliberately over-roast their beans so that they always taste the same (burnt, that is).

Starbucks monopolise the output of some of the biggest and highest-quality coffee plantations in the world. This is so they can prevent their competition from gaining access to those beans. Then they ruin them by over-roasting.

So, whose fault is this? Why, the idiots who patronise this crapola brand.
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby SoFarSoGood » Fri May 25, 2012 10:08 am

yep, burnt or over roasted coffee...I guess the coffee beans don;t taste any good to begin with so they "add" flavor by burning the "crapola" ;) out of it. just perfect for CN, where everything is just about surface. so they will make even more muchos dinaros due the fact that local consumers have no clue about real coffee.

the other reason why starbucks is doing well, is the mcdonalds effect. you just can't escape them motherfukers. they are jsut about on every street. and when it comes to sit and meet someone, well
you are becoming part of their world.
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby look2me4guidance » Fri May 25, 2012 12:42 pm

SoFarSoGood wrote:the other reason why starbucks is doing well, is the mcdonalds effect. you just can't escape them motherfukers. they are jsut about on every street. and when it comes to sit and meet someone, well you are becoming part of their world.


Starbucks is not doing well in many countries. They recently closed hundreds of stores in the US and a large number in Australia. Starbucks is only doing well in Asia and other random countries because of FACE. Sitting in a Starbucks cafe or walking along the street with their logo engraved paper cup, gives those with low self-esteem an air of 'coolness' in their otherwise meaningless lives. Visit a Starbucks in Australia and you will only see Asian international students hovering over a Frappucino (sp.) for hours on end.

Anyone with any idea about coffee avoids Starbucks like the plague.

Image

I only inserted the above image because I find it funny :D
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby look2me4guidance » Fri May 25, 2012 12:43 pm

beenaroundworld wrote:This is China. Total incompetence. This is how they do everything. We all know this.


Question answered - close thread 8)
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby custer » Fri May 25, 2012 1:16 pm

More Yankism - just what the world needs. Shanghai is certainly a haven for American fast food outlets and general human fattening factories. I enjoy Starf*cks if only to secretly laugh at meaty Amelicans and listen to their 9000 decibel speech patterns as they make sure everyone in that part of China is aware of their holy Yankiness. I also enjoy the jealousy in their eyes when, in my perfect clipped English tones, I enunciate my order to the barrista (and then repeat it six times as their ears have become attuned to only hearing the Yank dialect instead of the Queen's English). I then beam my biggest and brightest **** eating grin at the assembled Americans and perhaps enquire about the current state of the weather, remembering to deploy the stock British line "Oh, how awwwwful!' in a slightly nasal Terry Thomas tone after each American verbal ejaculation. I then depart humming several merry bars of 'Rule Britannia' under my breath and cursing the misfortune that the British company Costa Coffee is but a pale imitation of the Yankists' greatest contribution to humanity (second only to McDonalds and fat pants).
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby chineseexpatpudong » Fri May 25, 2012 2:00 pm

I remember reading an interview with the head of Costas Coffee (but same applies to Starbucks) and he said that their market research showed that in China compared to other countries, that taste is less important of a factor, and brand and a comfortable place to sit down in peace and quiet are what their Chinese customers prioritize.

I guess that's obvious to anyone who lives in China.

So it figures that they are not going to go for the most expensive highest quality coffee beans for the Chinese market, if it is not necessary or wasted on their customers.

Tylerdurden and others (both Chinese or laowai) who are more particular about the flavour of the coffee, are a small % of the market.
I'm sure the number of cases of customers complaining about the taste of the coffee is very small in China, so it's not an issue for them.
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby KopyKatKiller » Fri May 25, 2012 2:26 pm

To answer the OP's question: China = General Chaos and Lack of Training.

You're welcome.
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby hc_vodka » Fri May 25, 2012 5:14 pm

condesa wrote:
expatguy1 wrote:This is China, where everything is a copy and all service sucks, nuff said?


^ Wise words.

Honestly FOR CHINA, I think Starbucks has 'flawless' service. I had worst service in so many other places. :?

Life in the Middle Kingdom: sucks one way or another :lol:


seriously...OP must be newb to SH/CN? Starbux is a treat compared to other services. Ppl great u and generally speak some sort english and are civil....don't compare this to twn, hk, and US?? u joking?? this is CHINA....suck it up...bitch about it here and enjoy the cheap ah yi's and drivers and other sh*t u can't enjoy at home...
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby BACBill » Fri May 25, 2012 6:28 pm

custer wrote:More Yankism - just what the world needs. Shanghai is certainly a haven for American fast food outlets and general human fattening factories. I enjoy Starf*cks if only to secretly laugh at meaty Amelicans and listen to their 9000 decibel speech patterns as they make sure everyone in that part of China is aware of their holy Yankiness. I also enjoy the jealousy in their eyes when, in my perfect clipped English tones, I enunciate my order to the barrista (and then repeat it six times as their ears have become attuned to only hearing the Yank dialect instead of the Queen's English). I then beam my biggest and brightest **** eating grin at the assembled Americans and perhaps enquire about the current state of the weather, remembering to deploy the stock British line "Oh, how awwwwful!' in a slightly nasal Terry Thomas tone after each American verbal ejaculation. I then depart humming several merry bars of 'Rule Britannia' under my breath and cursing the misfortune that the British company Costa Coffee is but a pale imitation of the Yankists' greatest contribution to humanity (second only to McDonalds and fat pants).


What a pitty you hate Americans so much. Get over the independence...it happened well over 200 yers ago. By the way....there are plenty of fat British people as well.
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby p1atl10 » Fri May 25, 2012 6:58 pm

custer wrote:More Yankism - just what the world needs. Shanghai is certainly a haven for American fast food outlets and general human fattening factories. I enjoy Starf*cks if only to secretly laugh at meaty Amelicans and listen to their 9000 decibel speech patterns as they make sure everyone in that part of China is aware of their holy Yankiness. I also enjoy the jealousy in their eyes when, in my perfect clipped English tones, I enunciate my order to the barrista (and then repeat it six times as their ears have become attuned to only hearing the Yank dialect instead of the Queen's English). I then beam my biggest and brightest **** eating grin at the assembled Americans and perhaps enquire about the current state of the weather, remembering to deploy the stock British line "Oh, how awwwwful!' in a slightly nasal Terry Thomas tone after each American verbal ejaculation. I then depart humming several merry bars of 'Rule Britannia' under my breath and cursing the misfortune that the British company Costa Coffee is but a pale imitation of the Yankists' greatest contribution to humanity (second only to McDonalds and fat pants).



Didn't you get the memo?

This is the Yank plan to stay on top....

"The Burger King Theory of World Domination"

We export all the "best" of our cuisine...BK, Micki D's, Pizza Hut, KFC....to China

The little princesses and princes get hooked... because the Grandparents and Parents just will not deny them anything...

Then in about a generation the Chinese are as fat and lazy as we are!!!

I believe this was Bill Clinton's (as the King of Pudge and triple by passes) original plan .... :shock:
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby garyquinlan008 » Sat May 26, 2012 12:07 am

look2me4guidance wrote:
I only inserted the above image because I find it funny :D


Well done. 10/10 for that one. Gave me a good laugh.

You are spot on with the comments on Starbucks in Australia. The stores that were left open had high tourist or foreigner traffic. The stores remotely near a half decent small cafe didn't do so well and those near a great cafe that roasted their own beans simply tanked in sales.
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby highlander » Sat May 26, 2012 12:31 am

I think the only places I get better service in China then in the US is in some low end stores in the US that target middle class consumers in China like KFC, Walmart...this is because in the US only high school grads (or maybe even drop outs) would work in those places while in China they can hire college grads. In Starbucks and other middle class eating establishments (most of whom tips quite well) where in the US they can hire those going to college or graduated from college those same type of establishments in China can not compete even though they also are hiring college grads.
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby tihZ_hO » Sat May 26, 2012 12:53 am

tylerdurden wrote:One thing which is exactly the same in Chinese Starbucks outlets: the awfulness of the coffee.

It always tastes burnt. Everywhere in the world. That's because they deliberately over-roast their beans so that they always taste the same (burnt, that is).

Starbucks monopolise the output of some of the biggest and highest-quality coffee plantations in the world. This is so they can prevent their competition from gaining access to those beans. Then they ruin them by over-roasting.

So, whose fault is this? Why, the idiots who patronise this crapola brand.


I agree all the Starbucks I've been too all have shit coffee, burnt to shit. If there were no other choice I'd have to get 2 or 3 extra shots to make it more like coffee instead of a coffee flavoured drink. I will say this though, the Starbucks in Jakarta aren't that bad, and I didn't need the extra shots. Maybe local beans...
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby rickpeck » Sat May 26, 2012 3:16 am

yeah there are plenty of fat biatches in the UK and they have pasty pale arse skin to boot and a jacked up smile. I can honestly say i have no jealousy when it comes to hearing perfectly clipped english tones, now pardon me The King's Speech is on, wait is "clipped" a euphemism for stuttering?
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Re: Starbucks - General Chaos and Lack of Training

Postby p1atl10 » Sat May 26, 2012 6:05 am

This whole thread is a hoot!

Starbucks versus other shops in Shanghai
Winning the race of pigs for customer service!

Customer Service in China?

Fits right in there with other great oxymora...

Military Intelligence

Jumbo Shrimp

Happily Married

British Humor*



* spelled correctly with no freakin' "u"!
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