Hi Everyone,

I have just discovered this website and was so happy to see so many great posts on here. Anyway I had a couple of qurestions and was hoping that someone could help me with them. we are in the process of relocating to Shanghai in the next few months with my husbands company. I have a two year old and have another baby due in July. We are supposed to fly out to Shanghai from Germany at the end of the week for a month just to get out bearings. I was wondering what the food standards are like in general we have a servised apartment so I am planning to cook at home but am worried about food poisoning etc with a toddler and being pregnant as well.
Secondly we must now decide whether to have the baby in Shanghai or back in Germany and fly out again with a 6 week old baby for the final move. I am from UK but have been living in Germany for the past 2 years so neither is home for me but I guess Germany is much more familiar. Any advice regarding thing to bring or whether travelling now is a good idea as we can always delay until the baby is born before actually coming would be appreciated.
Sorry for the long and slightly confusing e-mail it must be the pregnancy hormones. Any advice appreciated.

Hi Yaz
I've lived here for just over a year and am also pregnant (just a few weeks). I would advise you read through all the previous posts on this site regarding other women's experiences of giving birth here. There are essentially 3 hospitals that westerners prefer to give birth - the American Sino hospital, the Peace Hospital and the much newer, western owned Shanghai United Family Hospital. It would be misleading of me to offer opinions regarding any at this stage, but I have opted to try the UFH as its sister hospital in Beijing has a good reputation, and they have intensive care, are spanking new with several birthing suites, and have many western trained doctors. Also i've heard that their caeserian rates are some of the lowest in China (elective and non elective). I'm due to go for first time next Tues.

In terms of food - you will get (more or less) everything you need at Carrefour - there is a big one in Gubei (west but north of river in Puxi). Fruit and veg here is very good and it's surprising how much organic veg you can buy in Carrefour. They've got a great bread section. The ony thing that really makes it feel Chinese is the tanks of live fish, turtles and frogs..but that's part of the experience. I've found an organic supermarket too in Gubei called Ostore (www.ostore.com) It doesn't carry a very big range - but it's OK for cereals, nappies, fruit and veg, drinks, grain, nuts and pulses etc.

I shop a great deal at the smaller 'City' supermarkets located at expat heavy areas in the city (the portman hotel, and underground but opposite parkson on huai hai road)- more expensive, but carry good range of goods you will be familiar with both in Germany and UK - in fact you will be surprised.

IN terms of eating out. Well Shanghai is awash with top notch restaurants, middling restaurants and some very good cheapy-ish ones too. You'll easily suss out the establishments where hygeine standards are good - it's pretty obvious. I must be honest, i avoid the majority of cheap, local restaurants as the chefs look filthy and hygeine standards are dismal (not always). Same goes for majority of street food - it's not prepared meticulously as it is in say, Thailand - fingernails are black, BBQs never ever cleaned and meat looks like it was vermin caught from a drain - and it smells like no other street food i've ever smelled in the world - and that's not a compliment. The locals must have cast iron stomachs, cos they would be closed down in minutes in the west. At the end of the day, it's all about refrigeration - and they just don't.

MY only other HUGE gripe is eating fish of any kind here that's been kept in Shanghai's repugnant water. It's revolting. Locals think that fish here (particularly river fish) is delicious - it's quite a delicacy. Coming from the west and used to clean water, you will instantly notice the taint and for me, is a major downer as i love fish. I stick to imported sea fish where i can get it. So yeah, you obviously can't drink the stuff. I clean my teeth in it and wash in it, fine...Bottled water is plentiful and most people rent a cooler device and a guy delivers the bottles regularly.

There are quite a few kiddy friendly restaurants - you'd need to suss em out when you get here - City Weekend is the free listings mag that you get free at bars, restaurants and city supermarkets.

From what i've heard, and from what i've seen recently in the shops - top notch baby products such as pushchairs, highchairs, car seats and 'educational' toys are not at all easy to get hold of, if at all. But you can get all the other baby products such as bottles, sterilisers, bibs, clothes etc etc here easily.

So hope that helps. Message me if you need any other help or info. I live in Puxi.

Yaz,
I have almost a two year old and am due in July with our second. We moved from the States. I am having the baby here as I was more concerned about the baby catching something on the plane than here. I am choosing to deliver at World link here in shanghai. They are not as pretty as family united but they are great and have wonderful doctors who have been very good with me. We have been here a month already and I have been to the doctor three times. All of my medical record are in our shipment which is not here yet so they double checked everything and i was thankful for their desire to make sure i was in the best health possible. Also the idea of not having my first child with me or traveling with both children after the birth was alittle overwhelming to me.
The food here is fine if you are careful what you order, the food can be very greasy and I was not use to it. I did get food poisoning but that was my fault. Everything here seems to spoil faster than you would think and i cooked meat after i should have tossed it, three days old and it had been refrigerated. Lesson learned we freeze ever piece of meat that comes into our house now. I have found that you really do not have to go to the carrefour to get your groceries. We go to the local super market or to Lotus up the street and can find almost all of the staples that we need. I go to city shop for the western things that i like but it is so expensive that i really am just adapting our eating habits, which happen to be better here than at home.
We live in pudong so i dont know about the west end of the city but here you can find about anything food wise that you want or need. Toys and books are few and far between. All and all we are getting use to it . I was more concerned with getting here and settled before the baby was born knowing that after the baby came i would be sleep deprived and emotional. We have just hired an ayi and i feel like by the time we have the baby my older child and the ayi will have established a relationship so i can focus on baby when the ayi is here. Hope that this was helpful. Please feel free to PM me if you like as things are still fresh for me and our situations are similar.

Thanks for the replies I now feel much more confident about our trip to Shanghai. While we are there I will visit a few of the hospitals and then decide from there if I will stay and have the baby in Shanghai or come back to Germany.
We are initally staying in a serviced appartment close to the Kerry centre as I have not been there before this does not mean much to me but everyone keep assuring me that we will be pretty central to most facilities. When we actually arrive do we start the hunt for a appartment which we will use for the next 18 months while we are based in Shanghai any advice on good areas to look at???? A considerating is that at the company os not providing us with a car and driver so we will be depentent on public transport to get around.

You will want to be close to the subway. we are in the same situation here. we live in Pudong in Lujiazui. I have found this very convienient for us. The city was our next option but was a bit too crowded for me with a toddler and another on the way. We are a 15 minute walk to the metro and we always have taxis outside of our compund so it is very convienient for us. My husbands office is down at peoples square and he can get to and from work in 30 minutes during rush hour on the metro.

Hi Yaz
I worked temporarily for a real estate company here based very close to where you you will be staying and so know a bit about the rental situation here as i used to look after the expat side, albeit briefly - I live fairly close myself to kerry Centre. The company is called World Union Properties (www.liveinshanghai.com.cn) if you call, ask for Manager Jean Yu, say you heard from Sam. They're based at Plaza 66 and offer a good service (no fee to client) and are great at helping you out with stuff like sorting phones, registering with police, etc etc. All the stuff the company HR say they will help you with and invariably forget to. Anyway, they have offices in Pudong and Gubei too and so cover all of Shanghai. (No i'm not on commission!). Standard in Shanghai is 2 months deposit and you would ordinarily sign for minimum of one year. You should be able negotiate a good deal for an 18 month signing - but make it clear that you don't intend to stay for two years. Don't be afraid to say if you hate the furniture (and it's highly possible you will). Many landlords are more than happy to allow you to choose your own furniture - they'll allow you to swap stuff or buy the lot yourself from scratch - (you must provide receipts etc) and they take it off the rent up to the value of the amount agreed. I think this is a good way to make it feel like YOUR home without the hassle of shipping etc - you just give it all up with the keys at the end. Get it all in writing of course.

The most popular areas for expats are:
Historic, but pricey French concession. Areas include Jing An (Nanjing road/Jing An temple area - Kerry centre area), Luwan (Mostly South East of Huai Hai road - mostly exorbitantly priced and encompasses Xintiandi area which you'll come to know) and Xu Hui (Hengshan road area - south west of Huai Hai road). Here you'll find highest concentration of 'old' style apartments and houses, but also the pricier high rise blocks and serviced apartments. Slap bang in the middle of everything and all the good and bad that entails!

Gubei and Hongqiao - West of the river (ie Pu X - Pu means river, Xi means West) but located out to the far west. Lots of new build aparment blocks and villa compounds. Near to some excellent international schools, Carrefour and various shops and restaurants. Expat fave, if very 'purpose built'. Various budgets. No Metro.

Pudong - (Pu =River, Dong =East) Greener and more spacious but lacking the charm of Puxi as it's very purpose built and a little spread out for some. Close to excellent international schools. Not bad for shopping. Metro. Good value and a few stops to Century Park which is a nice place to escape the bustle of Shanghai.

I am reasonably familiar with quite a few of the blocks in Puxi. I know of one block here that is brand new and at the time I was working was proving to be very popular with expats of all nationalities and is very good value- No.1 Park Avenue. It's got excellent facilities (olympic sized pool, clubhouse, gym, playgrounds for kids etc) but is very much in a built up area which may not suit - it's about a 5 min drive directly north of The Kerry Centre in Jing An district but is not particularly close to the metro (15 maybe 20 mins walk to Jingan temple). But worth checking out.

We got our apartment through this company - www.shrelocation.com/ - they have pics of just about every block and complex in Shanghai, and though the interiors can differ, gives you a good idea of what you get for your money and what is available.

Overall, I would say, other than budget which is a huge factor, it depends on where your husband works as to determining where you will base yourself as he will be the one negotiating rush hour madness. I'm in agreement with Renee. If you choose to rely on the metro, I would advise sticking to an area based near a stop on the same line as his work - doing the change from one line to another in rush hour is a bit of a schlep and really hectic.The metro though is efficient, safe, surprisingly clean and cheap. There's always a bit of argy bargy getting on and off so let 'em get on with it then slip on before the doors close. But it's more likely he'll just flag a taxi, they're very cheap and plentiful. The biggest gripe from expat Mums is the fact that taxis do not have seat belts in the back for kids and baby carriers (or indeed us adults). It's definitely not ideal, but I do not have a driver either and will just have to grit my teeth when the baby comes and get on with it. We're signing our lease for another year right now which will mean i'll be slap bang in the hustle and bustle when the baby is born but in all honesty i think if I had a toddler i'd be looking to go out where it's greener. Though i'm dreading turning into a Stepford Wife like many i meet.

BTW Worldlink is a 5 min walk from The Kerry Centre and is based at The Portman complex. My regular clinic and dentist is Global Health Care - based on floor 3 of The Kerry Centre.

Hi Yaz,
My wife just gave birth on last Saturday in Shanghai United Hospital and since it is our third child we can compare to our previous experience from home (we are from France). I can tell you they have great service and excellent standard of pratice. My wife was followed up during the pregnancy by the midwife called MK, and she's great. As for where to leave, I'd say we were quite glad to leave 800m or so from the hospital as it was a real quick birth: 20 minutes after arriving and 1 hour after first "serious" contractions. Although it happened 4am in the morning, you should consider that the traffic can be really bad at some time of the day and therefore select your living place close to selected hospital.
Any questions you can contact us.

Yaz
Just to follow up, I had my first app. at Shanghai United Family Hospital. I was really impressed. I saw a wonderful female Doctor - Dr Ninni Ji. She was kind, warm and i felt instantly at ease and she was meticulous in explaining everything and answering all my questions. In fact all the staff were great and very friendly. From what i've seen, it's definitely up there with other good private international hospitals and i was particularly pleased to hear about the jacuzzis in the birthing suites! I feel very relieved and know i will be i very good hands. In total agreement with Fred re: the location is out in the west, took us 40 mins after 9:30 rush hour from Nanjing road central area, so i hope i'm not caught out!

Yaz
Just to follow up, I had my first app. at Shanghai United Family Hospital. I was really impressed. I saw a wonderful female Doctor - Dr Ninni Ji. She was kind, warm and i felt instantly at ease and she was meticulous in explaining everything and answering all my questions. In fact all the staff were great and very friendly. From what i've seen, it's definitely up there with other good private international hospitals and i was particularly pleased to hear about the jacuzzis in the birthing suites! I feel very relieved and know i will be i very good hands. In total agreement with Fred re: the location is out in the west, took us 40 mins after 9:30 rush hour from Nanjing road central area, so i hope i'm not caught out!