Hi

going to Shanghai in two weeks for a first look and see trip. We are now being asked what and where we want to visit when going there, amongst other things we are asked where we would like to look at living.

I have asked before on this forum and the got a very straight answer to live on the same side as my work is, since the hazzle of commuting will be too great otherwise. My work will be in Puxi. And also I've understood that all the fun is in Puxi... However, I have also heard from a number of people that Puxi is not really a child's place? We have a kid that will be 2 years old when moving, if moving. Having a safe, (as close as possible to) non-polluted and fun environment as possible for him is worth quite a lot. I'm moving with my wife who is 34 years old, I',m 36. Is it perhaps that we are anyway too old to really enjoy the Puxi fun and that the commuting hazzle could still be overcome if living in Pudong?

More specifically I'm wondering:
- Is/could Puxi be a good place for a small kid to grow up in?
- Is Pudong substantially better for small kids?
- If choosing Pudong, is the commute still manageable, how much time does it have to take?
- Is Pudong a really boring place without aything interesting and fun to do for my wife and myself?
- In my place, what would you choose?

Many thanks!

First of all you need to accept that there is absolutely no such thing as a 'non-polluted environment' anywhere in Shanghai. Anywhere. In. Shanghai. If you live closer to the center, you will have city pollution (from traffic etc), if you like on the outskirts you will be near factories and power plants. That's just the way it is.

Your child is very young so there's no reason not to live near the center. No one can tell you if Pudong is 'substantially better' because none of us know what constitutes 'better' in your mind. There are many, many families living in the middle of town and there are many, many families around the fringes so it's really just a matter of what is 'better' for you all as a family, to have the kind of lifestyle you want to have. If 'better' for you means having shops, cafes, cultural opportunities, events etc within walking distance then most of Pudong is not for you. Personally it's not for me either - we like to go out, have fun, enjoy the city, but my husband's work was in the financial district; so we live in Lujiazui, which is in Pudong but is more 'city life' than the other parts of Pudong. For us it's a good compromise.

Whether it is practical for you to live in Pudong and work in Puxi again none of us can say; that could be a very long distance or a very short one. From where in Pudong, to where in Puxi? You could be talking a 20 minute commute or a two hour one, depending.

Yes just Puxi or Pudong is too vague as both are large areas. Where will you be working?

I prefer Puxi, more places for children to play.

No guy is ever too old 'for Puxi'
If my children lived with me, I would live somewhere in Pudong I think.

Pudong seems a little safer when walking with children.
Atleast, thats how I feel.

jzzzzzzz wrote:Yes just Puxi or Pudong is too vague as both are large areas. Where will you be working?

Not knowing the least bit about Shanghai yet, I at least know the area I would be working in. It's Xuhui district. Does that add any useful information?

I have a 4 year old and a 3 year old. When we first had the kids and until our oldest was 3 we lived in Puxi, close to Xuhui, we then moved over to Jinqiao in Pudong.

I think Jinqiao is a much more family orientated place to bring the kids up, more space and less crowds, lots of similar minded families and the air is better than downtown Puxi here.

Commuting - if it isn't rush hour you could get to Xuhui in around 25 minutes but if you want to get to work during the rush hour then could be up to 60 minutes depending on exact locations - this is all driving.
I moved to Jinqiao so I would commute rather than my kids as they started school downtown Puxi you get kindergartens but not bigger schools. Puxi is great (lived there 8 years) and everything is close by but for the kids I do prefer Jinqiao.
If you want to "experience" China then Puxi might be better. If your wife will be happier having coffee with other western mums with kids in strollers then somewhere like Jinqiao might be better. Also impacted if you are getting a car / driver from work as many do (I drive myself) - if not Jinqiao might be harder as more remote - Liujiazui might be a better compromise in that case. The subway system is good but isn't in Jinqiao yet and subway from Luijiazui to Xuhui is pretty good (check out which line your office and possible home is nearby). People might tell you you can always find taxis. True most of the time - except when it is raining when you might find no taxi for love or money!

Many thanks wantaword - great info ,details and thoughts. Very helpful!

Been living 6 years in Shanghai and a father of twin boys, pu dong will be a much nicer place for kids. Not too far east but around Jin Qiao as mentioned. It's a booming place, not too crowded, with some cozy bars, a new huge shopping central, pretty quiet at night if you choose the right place. There are also a good international school near that area if you plan to stay long enough.

If you don't mind further west, I have some friends living around Kang Qiao area. Its a place due west of roughly 10km from where the high speed train will drop you in pu dong. 3 story bungalo with garden much like the US. It's remote and not much public transport but its a good environment. I believe the rental is decent too compare to city area and most part of puxi.

There are also a number of good places if you can give us more details as in your budget and expectations of size / type of house and surrounding preferred.

Jinqiao is nice but your wife would need a car and driver otherwise shopping, etc will be a real hassle.

Lujiazui also nice but depends a lot on your budget. If you can afford upmarket like Shimao or Yanlord then the play/swim areas are great. Shopping is easier and taxis pretty good.

If your work is in Puxi you'll be battling a bit with commuting.

Now if it was me I'd look at staying in Top of City for the first year. Dead easy for commuting; there is a pool, gym, playpark for the kids and really nice gardens in the complex that take you about an hour just to walk all around once with a stroller. The playpark is ideal to meet other Mom's/kids.

Just outside the complex is Dagu Road - full of Western restaurants, spas, hairdressers, Imported foods Deli etc. You'd only need to shop at Carrefour once or twice a month for the big shop - everything else is local.

During that first year everything will be very easy and you can look around all the other areas of the city and maybe try Pudong later. But to start with keep everything close and commuting simple.

Bonnie's advice is really good. It's totally reasonable to move one place for the first year, try it out, get to know this town a bit, and then move if you think there's another place you'd rather be - happens all the time. Especially since your child is so young, there is no reason to give up on the city and move out to someplace like Jinqiao. (Which to my mind is indeed too far east - they don't even have a metro station, fer cryin out loud...) You might decide after being her for a while that in fact you do want to be more out in a suburb like that or one of those weird villa places out near one of the airports, and that closer to downtown isn't your cup of tea... but you should at least try it first, IMO.

Thanks for all the additional comments. It's a lot of different ideas, and I must say it's greatly appreciated.

We are right now in Shanghai and have just spent two days getting some general tours and going around by ourselves. It's a lot to take in...

We will go for a first area orientation on where to possibly live on Friday, which will be most interesting. The agency seemed to be recommending not going for Pudong, but seemed to more be suggesting Puxi. French concession, appartment downtown or villa in Hungqiao/Changning.

For various reasons we are somewhat leaning towards having a villa/house somewhere. And we are also feeling that Pudong is somewhat far away. However Changning we have so far not seen at all and it also appears a bit far away. What is the commute time approx into Xuhui? We will also look at some appartments downtown and some houses in Pudong.

As regards budget, when comparing I think we are a bit on the low side. We have appx. 32,000 rmb / month from the company, anything on top we have to pay ourselves. Don't really know how far that will get us, but assume it rules out the most attractive areas?!

Right now we feel really torn between different possibilities and wishes. To be in the city, and to "get out" of the city, to have a good place for our kid and to have a short commute time. To have an own house and to get good living value for the money etc., etc.

Geting a temporary appartment is a good idea we will be considering!

32,000 is not remotely on the low side. Unless you feel you simply must have a house. For that money, you can get a dumpy villa out in nowheresville, or you can get a really kick-ass apartment in a very cool part of town. Just sayin'. To get a halfway liveable villa anywhere near the city, yeah you're looking at probably at least 40K, and let me tell you what you'll find at 40K will probably make you go "Really? That much? For this?" But seriously, for 32K you can get a pretty fantastic apartment in a modern building with tons of amenities. There are, literally, hundreds of expat families living in or near downtown with kids who are having a fab time of it. There are parks, loads of pre-schools, and most apartment compounds have decent gardens and indoor playspaces for when it is too hot/too cold/too wet (which, don't let the weather today fool you, is most of the time.)

But hey, if you have to have a house, then get a house.

But, you don't have to have a house.