I just came across and excellent article on the Amcham Shanghai website about heatlhcare concerns of expats and those considering an expat assignment to China, particularly those from the U.S.:

http://www.amcham-shanghai.org/contents ... doc_id=227

Sorry Fidel. Texas does rock (thanks for opening up THAT can of worms -- can\'t wait for the deluge) and I will miss it, I\'m sure, but the article wasn\'t enough to keep me away from SH. It just reminds me that I need to double check the exact parameters of our medical evacuation coverage before we move. Already have all my shots.

We\'re now planning to move in a couple of months as long as SARS looks as if it\'s controlled in China generally and doesn\'t spin out of control in Shanghai. Shanghai in mid-July -- couldn\'t think of a better time to arrive -- NOT! Oh well, at the least the heat may help kill the SARS virus off!

Hey Tex
Glad to hear you are going to move over. I am in the negotiation stage with my wife to move us and the 3 inheritors next Jan. She is really concerned about SARS. You made some trips there right? What would you say to a person in her shoes. It is pretty different for her since we lived in Europe and now in South America????? :casstet:
ANyway, good luck to you and yours.

Chico:

\"Inheritors\" -- that\'s a good one! Yes, my husband and I have made a couple of trips to Shanghai: once to look at schools for our 2 inheritors (pre-SARS) and again, just a couple of weeks ago to find housing. I\'d say that the SARS risk in Shanghai seems to be pretty low right now and the local gov\'t certainly seems to be taking the right steps to prevent it from hitting Shanghai hard -- we had our temps taken three times when we arrived! Still, it does worry me a little too, mostly because of our kids, so I will be closely watching the stats in Shanghai and China generally over the next month to ensure that things don\'t worsen. Our future landlord in Shanghai is being flexible about our lease -- it\'s due to start July 15 unless SARS is a problem there (though I\'m not quite sure how they define \"problem\" in the contract). January is still a ways away, so perhaps things will look even better by then for your move. Let\'s hope so!

As for Shanghai being different for her, I can relate, but it\'s hard for me to know if it will be different for us in the same respects, since I don\'t know her expectations and/or what she\'s used to. Here\'s my perspective, based on the lifestyle I\'m used to and things that are most important to me, for what it\'s worth. As you\'ve probably discovered, there are lots of other perspectives represented on this board.

I was born and raised in the US and love living in the suburbs. Life is good and comfortable here. We have friends and family here whom we will miss (though many have promised/threatened to visit us in Shanghai ). Life in Shanghai will be culture shock for me in many ways, no doubt. However, I\'ve embraced the opportunity to experience another culture firsthand and we think it will be a wonderful experience overall - especially for the kids. I should tell you though that I have a special interest in learning about Chinese culture because I\'m ethnic Chinese -- a 1st generation ABC (American Born Chinese). Ironically, I think that will make my experience in China more difficult in many ways than if I were white or even non-Chinese, since I don\'t even speak Chinese (though I\'ve started to learn and will take intensive courses after we move) or know a lot about the culture and this may not be appreciated or understood (and even be resented?) by many of the locals. I think my kids will have an easier time than I because they are young (4 yrs), adaptable and will learn the language quickly, I hope. And I think that the Chinese like children a lot, though they may draw curious looks/stares because they are 1/2 white.

From what I can tell, an expat family can live pretty comfortably in Shanghai (by my middle to upper-middle class US standards), though it would help if you have a generous expat package from your company -- especially on the housing and school fronts. We\'re pleased with the townhouse we\'ve found in Shanghai and were pleasantly surprised that it\'s not much smaller than our house here, but it costs more than twice as much as our house does, and, of course, it is a townhouse, rather than a stand-alone house. Some of the expat compunds we looked at had some very nice facilities (weight room, pool, tennis, etc.). Of course, many expats live happily and much more cheaply, from what I read on this website, but I think that being able to live in an environment that is at least similar to what I\'m used to in the US will go a long way towards easing some of the culture shock. I am feeling adventurous, but not that adventurous!

There are several good international schools, but they are pretty expensive ($11-20K USD per year), so it definitely helps if your company will foot the bill. Western food is easy to come by, though some things are pricey. The mega-store we\'ve visited (a grocery and department store combined, like SuperWal-mart, if you\'ve ever been to one of those) were clean and modern. It was a Carrefour (French?), so maybe you\'re familiar with the chain? I plan to start out with mostly familiar foods, places, etc. and then branch out to experience the more \"local\" things over time.

My husband\'s colleague who is a Shanghai expat from Dallas with a wife and two young kids tells us that they can do everything with the kids (soccer, dance lessons, etc.) in Shanghai that they did back in Dallas. Don\'t know the ages of your kids, but if activities for them are an issue, check out the Shanghai ActiveKidz website (www.activekidz.com).

Things I think I will miss most while in Shanghai: (1) (relatively) unpolluted sunny blue skies -- these seem to be a rarity due to the constant haze -- a mixture of fog and pollution, I think; (2) having my own car (though I may get used to not having to drive, park, get gas, etc. and end up liking it!); (3) wide open spaces in my day-to-day life -- it\'s definitely a crowded city by my \"suburbia\" standards, but perhaps we can escape to the countryside occassionally?; (4) being literate and able to communicate easily practically anywhere I go, though, as I mentioned I\'ll be working hard on the verbal communication skills, but will probably never be able to read and write Chinese, which I\'\'m sure will be frustrating; and (5) American TV shows (though we\'ll get English cable channels like CNN, ESPN, HBO, etc.). 1 and 3 may be a little better if you live in the Pudong area, which is much less developed and thus less polluted and crowded (the tradeoff is that it may be less convenient to work, shopping, etc. depending on where you live/work).

On the plus side, the family will get to experience a whole new culture (not just Chinese, but also the cultures of the other expats from around the world whom I\'m sure we will get to know), learn to speak a new language, and look at the world in a whole new light (and better appreciate what we have) after living a relatively comfortable and sheltered life in the US. I\'d expect that the fact that you have kids will make it easier for your wife to make new friends and stay busy -- I\'m hoping that\'s the case for me. I also plan to look into the expat and expat women\'s associations over there.

From a career perspective, in the end, I hope it helps my husband\'s career to have done business in one of the world\'s fastest growing and most promising markets. I\'m also a professional (lawyer) and hope to be able to find a good professional/legal position myself so I can market myself as a China \"expert\" advising businesses when we return to the states. I have one promising lead so far . . .

Finally, one of the most enticing benefits of living in Shanghai is that domestic help there is incredibly cheap. I think that the going rate for a full-time ayi (housekeeper/cook/sitter) is about $100-125 USD per month -- less than what I now pay to have my house cleaned for just a few hours twice a month. So, if your wife hates cooking and cleaning as much as I do, she\'ll be happy to hear that! I\'ve heard some expat wives get so used to having the help that they don\'t want to go home.

Bottom Line: I\'d say to her that living in Shanghai (for a couple of years, anyway, as we\'re planning to do) will probably be a great adventure that many people will never have the opportunity to experience. It seems to be an exciting time to be there as things are changing fast. Hopefully, it will benefit you in your career and benefit the entire family from a personal perspective by broadening your horizons. Besides, it sounds as though your wife is more worldly than I, having already lived in at least two different parts of the world. I\'ve barely even traveled outside the US up to this point! So if I can do this (though I guess it remains to be seen if I can do so and keep my sanity), I\'m sure she can!

Hope this is at least a little bit helpful. I\'m sure I\'ll have more (and perhaps different?) insights after we actually move there. Good luck to you and your family in your decision and/or move. We had only 24 hours to decide whether to accept the transfer (and I had never even been to Shanghai or China when we decided), but 7 months later we\'re still glad we accepted it.

I rambled on a bit (sorry), trying to hit the high points, but let me know if you or your wife have any other questions and I\'d be glad to try to answer them.

P.S. -- After I wrote the above, I read one of your prior posts and saw that you and your family are already experienced \"city-dwellers\" (unlike me) and that you\'ll have the budget for a high-end apartment. I would think that those two factors would make your transition a bit easier for your family.


[Edited on 28/5/2003 by TXMOM]

Hi Tex
Thanks for all the information. It is very nice of you to be so open about your situation and lends me a hand in your perspective.

My family is all american although none of my children have ever lived there. We have been \"on the road\" for the last 7 years. All the appealing points you mention are the reason I was open to start negotiationg the move several months ago. The main point being the help since we have 3 under age 5 right now! Right now my wife has a larger staff than I do.

The real concern for my wife is SARS. Since the move would not take place until next year I think it is a non-issue unless soemthing changes. Most of what she hears (other expats and news) is the opposite. A friend of mine moved from Shanghai 2 years ago and said his company (major pharma company) is pulling out all the expats due to the lack of medical care (ouside of SARS) due to the burden SARS has placed. My company has a travel ban in place on China so even if I could convince my wife to take a look see then it would have to wait. I tell her it is only a matter of time before it hits our own little 3rd world paradise here and throws this medical system into overload.

Anyway, thanks for the advice..... we\'ll see how this one plays out.

Chico:

Three under five! Wow, your wife does have her hands full. I just heard a story about an expat wife in Shanghai who manages a staff of five household employees, which gave me a good laugh! Sounds like that is and/or will be your wife too!

Interesting story about the pharma company -- I hadn\'t heard about any companies pulling their expats from Shanghai, though our relocation consultants did say during our last visit that some expats were choosing to return home early on their own. My husband\'s company (major US co. with offices worldwide), which I consider to be pretty conservative, discourages non-essential travel to mainland China, but doesn\'t ban it. And, they recently lifted the 10-day home quarantine requirement for employees returning from mainland China, in accordance with the lifting of the CDC quarantine recommendation. Maybe your company can be persuaded to do the same? A \"look see\" visit really did a lot to get me excited about the move.

I\'ve been checking the Shanghai Municipal Health Bureau\'s website (www.smhb.gov.cn) for SARS stats for Shanghai (they issue daily reports). Other than this site, I\'ve found SARS info specific to Shanghai to be hard to come by. As of May 28, the official story is that Shanghai has only had 8 SARS cases to-date, and currently has just one suspected case. Of the 8 cases, 2 have died, 2 have been discharged and 4 remain hospitalized. If those figures are true, then that\'s pretty good for a city of 16 million!

I agree with you that unless things take a dramatic turn for the worse, SARS should be a non-issue in making a decision to move more than seven months from now. Besides, if your company is so conservative that they have banned all travel to Shanghai, my guess is that they will not require/permit you to move there if SARS is a major threat by January. So, that would give me some comfort as the wife.

Good luck! Hope to meet you and the family if/when you get to Shanghai.