I'm really interested in buying an apartment here in Shanghai. Does anyone know of an English speaking real estate agent who is trustworthy and can still haggle prices down to local terms.

Also, any advice about getting into the real estate market here. I would love to hear from someone who's been through this process.

Thanks

Email: travella207@hotmail.com

I recommend that you have someone help you and make sure you understand the value of properties very well before you decide to buy anything. If you know anyone that's been here for a long while, and you can trust them, then ask them for help. Don't trust any Chinese real estate agent because he/she could collude with the owner to get a cut way in excess of what they should get, in effect ripping you off. Watch out for any other Chinese offering help.

You will also need a lot of time to go here and there to complete all the formalities of the purchase and transfer. The agent gets involved in some of these things as standard procedure.

I don't think any Chinese is going to bargain real hard for you unless he/she has some stake in it such as a wife or husband

Good4kicks, you should be shame on what you said. You are using really impolite and insulting words.Watch out your mouth.

What are you talking about? Most Chinese wouldn't trust a Chinese real estate agent or another Chinese they don't know with this issue. if you are worried about getting ripped off, imagine what can happen to a foreigner that cannot speak Chinese.

You people always get cut up if a foreigner says anything critical of you, no matter if it's true or not.

good4kicks wrote:I recommend that you have someone help you and make sure you understand the value of properties very well before you decide to buy anything. If you know anyone that's been here for a long while, and you can trust them, then ask them for help. Don't trust any Chinese real estate agent because he/she could collude with the owner to get a cut way in excess of what they should get, in effect ripping you off. Watch out for any other Chinese offering help.

You will also need a lot of time to go here and there to complete all the formalities of the purchase and transfer. The agent gets involved in some of these things as standard procedure.

I don't think any Chinese is going to bargain real hard for you unless he/she has some stake in it such as a wife or husband

spot on!!! the truth is out there... trust no one!!!!

Dilligaf

In this case good4kicks is precisely correct. If you can't speak the language you have no idea what they are saying behind your back.

Here is a tip: Go to xiang yang market with a local. If you can understand Chinese listen to what the vendors tell the local. Here is what it is quite often: "If you get them to buy at a good price, we will give you a cut.". I can guarantee that when the stakes are higher your chances of getting robbed are much higher.

good4kicks wrote:I recommend that you have someone help you and make sure you understand the value of properties very well before you decide to buy anything. If you know anyone that's been here for a long while, and you can trust them, then ask them for help. Don't trust any Chinese real estate agent because he/she could collude with the owner to get a cut way in excess of what they should get, in effect ripping you off. Watch out for any other Chinese offering help.

You will also need a lot of time to go here and there to complete all the formalities of the purchase and transfer. The agent gets involved in some of these things as standard procedure.

I don't think any Chinese is going to bargain real hard for you unless he/she has some stake in it such as a wife or husband

As usual right on the target. Besides who would like to buy anything in a (near) future war zone...

If Shanghai ever become a war zone, anywhere in US might become a war zone too. What an idiot. Other than US, I can't think of any country can make shanghai a war zone. Plus US and China are still in their honeymoon, I don't see a near future war zone possibilities. Andreas just exposed how foolish he is.

You are obviously a moron...

yep, typical reply from an idiot.

Honest Real Estate Brokers in Shanghai is an oxymoron.

There was a good New York Times article a month back on renting vs. buying. The experts in the article basically said that if you take the selling price a a property and divide it by the annual rent of the property and get a number 25 or over, and you are not planning on owning the property for much longer than 5 years, renting is a better option (and this is not taking into account the taxes you pay at closing plus the interest charges of a mortgage).

I almost bought an apartment until I realised the rent/buy multiple on what I wanted was over 30 and that the apartment would likely be in terrible condition after 5-10 years, due to the poor construction quality in Shanghai. So I am renting what I almost bought!

I also found that a lot of sellers will not bargain and have no understanding of basic economic principles of supply and demand. They have a minimum selling price and are not desperate for cash. They will hold onto the apartment until the market meets their price. For example, one apartment had been listed seven months, so we bid below the listing price. The Seller came back with a price higher than the listing price, saying that the apartment's value had appreciated in the seven months since he listed it!

There were also an article in Shanghai daily of yesterday edition (or 2 days ago) which could be of great interest for you about buying a property in shanghai.
My own little experience shows that Chinese real estate agents are not worst than some western ones we have been introduced to (for renting) and we finally make a good deal from a chinese real estate agent. So far he is serious, honest, fast reponding and help us to make the best possible deal but we remain carreful. However, I must say that even in Europe, it is difficult to find a trustworthy real estate agent, they are often interested in making quick money !
Personnaly, I would not buy anything unless I have a Chinese friend (someone I can trust) who knows the market and can follow up for you.
good luck
Fox

Yes, all realtors are by their very nature dishonest IMO

The difficulty as a foreigner is that you probably cannot understand the language, and you don't know the market very well. So its much easier to get ripped off.

According to the latest China Economic Review 1,800 real estate agency outlets have closed this year to date. That gives you a good idea of the relative bargaining power you have now.

The NYT rent/buy ratio is an interesting one, but tends to really apply in a 'normally' escalating property environment. Any ratio needs to be determined on the nature of the specific market.

Given the approx 20% 'softening' of residental prices this year, and the seemingly likely escalation with new offshore 'hot money' influxes currently projected, what makes sense today may not make sense tomorrow.

Obviously, none of the foregoing is to deride the poster or the ratio itself, but to suggest that this is a much more dynamic market here.

So, as per all the advice above, know your market and don't believe a damned word they say. Walk away if the asking is too much by your reckoning. There's a gazillion empty speculatively owned apartments in town and some of their owners will really need to sell. Find one and you'll probably find yourself some value if you bargain hard.

Remember the dictum: Better no business than bad business.

Good luck!

Having bought and apartment here, and planning on living here permantly, I recommend only buying an apartment if you plan to live here long term. The real estate market is only long term now.

Some facts: The Shanghai population is growing 5-8% a year and is predicted to grow like this until 2020.

Prices are very over-priced, and it is a speculators market, even after the gov. regulations of 6 months ago.

It doesn't matter if the real estate agent is Chinese of Foriegn, they will always try to get you to buy "the best" a.k.a. the most expensive one they know of. With this, you have to watch every part of the process to make sure you don't get screwed.

When I bought my apartment, I had to physcially be there for everything. For the showing, had to go to the real estate agency again to sign the papers (with a lawyer to make sure everything was in there and there were no terms to get me in the end), had to have an auditor from the city validate the deal.

Then, after the process was finished and I had the apartment, I had to be there almost every single day to watch them remodle it, so they wouldn't take any shortcuts or anything else when doing it.

Everyone has a horror story. The best advice is for you to ask everyone you know if they have someone "they trust" and then try to contact and deal with this person.

Also, if you are buying an apartment over 1,000,000 rmb, I would recommend hiring a lawyer briefly to make sure the contract, etc., is fine and you understand everything in it.

Camsonron

Are there any government taxes or charges imposed when purchasing a house?

Completely agree with camsonron.

The fit out was a bloody nightmare. I was more hard-arsed than I've ever been before (and I've previously managed construction projects) and still got screwed. Though much less than I've seen others get it. Remember there are no apprenticeships here. If you pick up a saw you are a carpenter, pliers you are an electrician, wrench a plumber.

BTW the construction standards in Shanghai are far, far superior to Beijing - which is scary to think about.

If you're not keen on experiencing all the fun and games it might be worth considering a 'second hand' apartment where you can see the stuff ups if they haven't been covered up. Check for evidence of plumbing leakages and repainting/retiling. Also the electrics. But you'd do all this anyway - just moreso here. Hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs.

Good luck!

To BaoLe,

Yes, but they've recently done away with the previously mandatory 'insurance'. That cost us nearly 10kRMB a coupla years ago.

If the insurance was mandatory why wouldn't I get it now, apart from the added cost? Does it cover you in case the building falls down within the first few months of moving in? How much for example might the government charges be for a 1million rmb apartment?

The 'insurance' actually didn't cover the owner, rather the bank in case of default. It was a one-off 'premium' that disappeared into the consolidated revenue of the bank. A complete swizz as far as I'm concerned.

Being compelled to take out insurance on another entities behalf, for their benifit is a bloody scandal that should've been remedied long ago. Incompetent, grasping pricks that banks are! Recent stats show that upwards of 5% of all car loans in China are unpersuable because they don't know where the owners are! This isn't just 5% of NPLs, but of all car loans. I really objected to subsidising this kind of incompetence. Then again , I still coughed-up.

Better out than in, T.I.C, T.I.C, T.I.C ....

Jaywalker wrote:The 'insurance' actually didn't cover the owner, rather the bank in case of default. It was a one-off 'premium' that disappeared into the consolidated revenue of the bank. A complete swizz as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah true but its not just here. In the UK there is the "mortgage indemnity payment" or something like that which is also to insure the banks losses if you default. Real rip-off

camsonron wrote:Having bought and apartment here, and planning on living here permantly, I recommend only buying an apartment if you plan to live here long term. The real estate market is only long term now.

Prices are very over-priced, and it is a speculators market, even after the gov. regulations of 6 months ago.

Also, if you are buying an apartment over 1,000,000 rmb, I would recommend hiring a lawyer briefly to make sure the contract, etc., is fine and you understand everything in it.

Camsonron

Everything said by camsonron was reasonable but I would just like to comment on the above points.

1. real estate should always be a long term buy decision

2. I don't think it's overpriced. Still cheap compared with other leading Asian cities and the fundamentals driving the demand side show no signs of letting up.

3. Contracts are all the same so I don't see the value in getting it checked, unless you need someone to explain it to you.

fl223 wrote:I'm really interested in buying an apartment here in Shanghai. Does anyone know of an English speaking real estate agent who is trustworthy and can still haggle prices down to local terms.

Also, any advice about getting into the real estate market here. I would love to hear from someone who's been through this process.

Thanks

Email: travella207@hotmail.com

well,actually, i will work in some real estate company from the new year's day of 2006 to 2007, so maybe i can help you. also my boss he is an european guy and doing his real estate in china, his company is a real english speaking corp and i maybe would like work as an agent in his corp, so if you like, i maybe also can offer you this kind infomation ( well, it depends on what kind of apartment that you really wanna get it here) so mail me if you wanna know something detailedly.

If I remember correctly there has been 3% tax of full sales price, i.e. 30k from 1 million property.