Submitted by Mario Cavolo, founder of sanyaexpat.com

Hi Gang

Finally finished our 3rd Quarter 2009 Sanya Real Estate Review appropriately entitled "Lunacy Prevails" Its not a statistical report, more of a scathing narrative on the good and bad happening down here as development continues whether you plan to come for holiday or may have interest in an apartment at the beach. Enjoy and please do let me know your thoughts.

Lunacy Prevails: The Sanya Real Estate Report 3rd Quarter 2009. Here's the link:

http://sanyaexpat.com/index.php/2009/09/20/lunacy-and-instability-prevails-the-sany?blog=1

Cheers, Mario, founder
www.sanyaexpat.com

Thanks for that, very informative! Out of curiosity what are rental prices like for ocean view apartments? To me that's a good measure of what the real value is. I.E. in Shanghai if I can rent a $600,000 apartment for $1,000 a month, something is out of whack.

Mario,

You're shreiking. No one, I repeat NO one is going to out negotiate the Chinese. It doesn't matter even if you are a graduate of Harvard Business School.They are the pros get used to it. Buy your apartment...don't buy your apartment. The only people riding the gravy train in China these days are the Chinese and frankly, I think it's about time...it is their country, is it not?

Three years ago, I bought a nice new little apartment in Haikou at what I thought was a fair and reasonable price. I spent days searching. Since then, my husband has told me it has doubled in value. Cool. However, I didn't come to make a financial killing on real estate...just have something to live in.

Blind greed is going to wreck many a ship in these financial waters. If you think the prices are too high, then don't buy. But you can't stop others from spending their money on properties most people can't afford. It's their money... If it all goes bust, of course you will be able to say, "I told you so."

very well said and understood....they are masters of their ways and its their time in the sun no doubt M

Huaidan, you make a very good point...rentals in the nicer new apartment complexes are running from 3000 to 7000rmb per month at the ocean front for the longer term one year leases, depending on size.... smaller one bedrooms are at 3000rmb, mid size at 4-6000rmb and large units over 170sqm over 6000/rmb...this equates to the range of 30-40rmb per square meter per month, which is quite reasonable compared to Shanghai. Nice new apartments in the city/river area down here are even cheaper, at 20rmb per square meter per month....that's much higher than 2 years ago but still very cheap.

Short term rentals for the winter put you back in the lunatic asylum, varying wildly as landlords try to get away with what they can. But generally, the shorter monthly rentals will run two to four times higher than the yearly rates. And Chinese New Year week at 1000 to 2000rmb per nite for a one week minimum.

Cheers, Mario, www.sanyaexpat.com

BoaoInn wrote:Mario,

You're shreiking. No one, I repeat NO one is going to out negotiate the Chinese. It doesn't matter even if you are a graduate of Harvard Business School.They are the pros get used to it.

Pfff... I guess you've never met a Jew.
You haven't made any real gain on your property unless you've actually sold it and are holding the profits. If you read the article there are people who bought two years ago who are selling for the original price. Paper gains don't mean a thing.

Mario thanks again for the rental information. Are there any websites with Chinese listings of local properties for rent? I couldn't find much on the English side of things.

I understand that www.soufun.com is a chinese mega site including real estate.

For anyone who is interested, there will be a Real Estate Fair, 09:00-18:00 September 30-October 2, Haikou Exhibition Center(Binhai Avenue,on the west to Evergreen Park). Free event...

I've read that China Real Estate is now worth approx what US real estate (comparing similar locations/environment...) is worth so unless you expect within the year the currency exchange rate to go from 6.8 to 1 China real estate is really over valued. Good thing rental rates in China still reasonable (since rental prices has to be what the local person can afford given their income). If rental rates were as high as US rental rates this expat is moving back home to the great weather/environment of Southern California.

Anyone heard of which country/location (Thailand, Malaysia, Australia....) currently where there is cheap beach front property to purchase right now (compared to US/China) and decent living environment?

pfffft, get to know a local, ask them suddenly what rents are, and you'll find that the the real rents are a fraction of any asking price, just like Shanghai. 150 sq. meters, 10km from downtown, 800rmb/month.

same crap is happening in Changchun, the 1000rmb apartment is being marketed to foreigners at 12,000rmb/month.

CoffeeHawk_0 wrote:pfffft, get to know a local, ask them suddenly what rents are, and you'll find that the the real rents are a fraction of any asking price, just like Shanghai. 150 sq. meters, 10km from downtown, 800rmb/month.

same crap is happening in Changchun, the 1000rmb apartment is being marketed to foreigners at 12,000rmb/month.

totally second that. Expats need to learn to integrate into the local scene in order to see the reality of things in China.

jasonnoguchi wrote:

CoffeeHawk_0 wrote:pfffft, get to know a local, ask them suddenly what rents are, and you'll find that the the real rents are a fraction of any asking price, just like Shanghai. 150 sq. meters, 10km from downtown, 800rmb/month.

same crap is happening in Changchun, the 1000rmb apartment is being marketed to foreigners at 12,000rmb/month.

totally second that. Expats need to learn to integrate into the local scene in order to see the reality of things in China.

Caveat Emptor "let the buyer beware"

Anyone heard of which country/location (Thailand, Malaysia, Australia....) currently where there is cheap beach front property to purchase right now (compared to US/China) and decent living environment?

you're out of luck on this request my friend.....3 years ago, for example, we checked out Thailand's eastern coast heading south to Pattaya, Koh Samed, Koh Chang.....prices have doubled since then.....an apt at JomTien beach southend of Pattaya, was 5000rmb psqm, its doubled since then...and its the same story everywhere due to the China driven rise of Asia despite the crisis.....might still be some deals in Malaysia...Cheers, Mario, www.sanyaexpat.com

just like Shanghai. 150 sq. meters, 10km from downtown, 800rmb/month.

Really? Which direction from center CoffeeHawk? We're probably relocating to Shanghai again in a few months.... At 800-1000rmb per month, we of course we assume you are referring to the older walkup gardens....newer nicer apartment complexes would be in the range of 2000-4000???? Thanks, Mario, www.sanyaexpat.com