We have been using few different travel agents for our travels in China and most of them in the general information also have a chapter suggesting you should tip the tour guide and driver however these amounts differ from one to another. Has anyone got any suggestion how much should be tipped. Last agent we used suggested something like RMB30 to RMB50 per person per day for the guide and half of that for the driver.

On a side issue, I am happy to tip as I understand that everyone needs to make a leaving, however the fact that the travel agents write it in the general information is kind of annoying as the companies that employ these guides and drivers in this way they can get away by paying them close to nothing, I have heard that at times the guides need to pay the travel agents money in order to get a job and therefore the only pay they get is the tips and commission from your shopping.

Do NOT tip. This is not the States. If you use a reputable travel agent, they will be paying their guides good money.
Get another agent. Remember that any tip to a guide will go to the agent. Is that what you want?
They are trying to screw you.

Why would the tip going to the agent???

I tip if I feel the tour guide offered great personal service we liked the person.
I give cash, 50-100, to the guide discreetly.
I do believe this money goes to the guide.

Just like in restaurant in Shanghai if you wish to leave a tip, you need to give it in cash, and give it discreetly.

Yeah, I'd normally give a 100 to the tour guide, especially if they've been with me all day or something. In Xi'an last year we had a tour guide taking us round the Terracotta warriors - she was interesting funny and made the visit all the more worthwhile so we gave her 100 on top of the fee we had already paid.

To be frank, leaving a tip it's personal and depends on yourself but generally speaking people do not tip tour guides, waiters, taxis etc in China - from own experience. The majority of locals, do not tip and part of adaptation is to "do like the Romans in Rome".

I would agree with a lot that is written above, that often are the guides informed to try to get tip from their bosses.

They've already received their kickbacks from the restaurants and trinket shops they've taken you to, so why tip them?

no tipping in china. anyone recommending it, is part of the scam.

mat wrote:They've already received their kickbacks from the restaurants and trinket shops they've taken you to, so why tip them?

Not every tour trip takes you to the pre-selected restaurants and shops.

The cheaper tour package usually involves such.
They have packages where they call it "chun wan" (purely sight-seeing), they charge higher price but don't take you shopping and etc.

cantcheckemailnopw wrote:no tipping in china. anyone recommending it, is part of the scam.

It's a personal choice.

I thought expats from western countries should know what "freedom" is.

fWerrF wrote:

mat wrote:They've already received their kickbacks from the restaurants and trinket shops they've taken you to, so why tip them?

Not every tour trip takes you to the pre-selected restaurants and shops.

The cheaper tour package usually involves such.
They have packages where they call it "chun wan" (purely sight-seeing), they charge higher price but don't take you shopping and etc.

My ex-gf is a guide. If she does a cheap tour, they must go to selected shops/restaurants. She would only get like rmb200/day salary, and hope people buy from the shops, which she then had to split with driver. Nearly all packages she's done since start of Expo were purely sightseeing, and she receives nothing from any shop. Her salary on these is around rmb400-600/day I think. Maybe she works 3-6 days/week normally, but at the high end during the expo. All foreign groups (Indians excepted) that she's had give tips, depends on how she does and size of group, and it varies greatly. No part of the tip, if done discreetly at least, is shared with the agent or anyone else. I personally don't have any problem doing this in Asia if they're a good guide, they are a big part of the difference between a good and not so good experience.

In the name of fcuking god, how many times.... Don't tip, it's not the done thing in China. This is not the USA.

Highly agreed MLL, mat & findus. Bit grim, but true.

You start tipping in China now, then every shabby service provider will keep standing there, waiting with a polite cough wanting 'more' when you pay up. Gees, attend a high-end restaurant here and there is a 15% service surcharge.

Trade Unions do have a place.

Z.

findus wrote:In the name of fcuking god, how many times.... Don't tip, it's not the done thing in China. This is not the USA.

I gave your Mum a tip.

This topic came at the right time, something funny happened to us last week.

My family was in town for the holidays, and I took them to Beijing for 2 days. Great time to visit the Forbidden city and the great wall, what a crowd...... But lets get back to the story..

I reserved a van a few weeks ago with a private driver to take us to the Mutianyu great wall, as a former resident of Beijing and laowai for a couple of years in China, I was not new to this part, but my family was, so it was nice to show them around.
I booked the van for 4 people because we just wanted some privacy and freedom, and not being stuck in a tour bus with 200 others and guide. Me and the 'driver' specified all costs beforehand on email and I only asked for a driver from Beijing downtown to great wall and back, no guide no nothing needed.

When the day arrived we were picked up by a girl, who brought us to a van. My relative asked her: are you the driver? Which she replied with: Today we visit the Great Wall..

The van was fine, the 4 of us had all the space we needed in a 7 person mini van, no problem. Still not really knowing what the girl was doing there since I just asked for a driver nothing more, but hey, it was nice company and the prices were set so who cares.

On our way over there she started talking about the factories and the shops which were really interesting to see. Politely laughing and waving my hand I told her no thanks, straight to the Wall please, we are not going to do any shopping.
"But its very Chinese and cultural, very interesting. I told her, listen, I used to live here, my gf right here in my arm is Chinese and my sister in the back has seen it as well, Im sure her bf doesnt need to see it either, so please. The great wall, nothing more.

This continued for 5-6 times were she kept insisting on going to these places and we were getting a bit annoyed since it was 7.30 am and we wanted to sleep instead of listening to her crap. In the end my relative shouted at her to shut up and drive us to the wall, nough said.

Lets skip to the end of the story, we arrived, we went up the wall, spent 4,5 hours and came back down....

When we came back down, she said it was the longest time she ever had to wait for her guests/tourists. We didnt really care because I was there to show my family the Great Wall, not to please her. So I kindly ignored her. She again repeated herself, saying that the longest she ever had to wait was 2 hours. I laughed and asked her if those were old people going up the wall, she said 'Yes'. I laughed at her and said well there you go, we are all young people, and we want to make our trip worth while (by the way, I saw 2 couples wearing high heels going up the wall... moroons).

The driver (which we didnt speak to all day) came back from a wizz so we went off back to Beijing downtown. Beat up by the entire day hiking and the hot sun we just laid back and were looking forward to Beijing again when she started to talk about lunch, she knew a good place blablabla. We all knew what was coming so we said no thanks, Beijing downtown please. This again repeated itself for 5 times when things got a bit annoying again.

Suddenly after a moment of silence she said, you know I feel so useless today. I didnt get to show you any factory or tea house, so I feel useless as a guide. I said , you listen to me, I made an appointment with a Mr. XXX to have a driver from Beijing to the Wall and back, I never asked for a guide because 2 of us speak Chinese and we just want to enjoy the view. So I dont know what you are doing here, great you tag along but we dont care what you feel like.

She said she only got 50 RMB for the day, and was hoping to spike it up with showing us the factories and stuff (we knew this would get her some comissions). Again I told her this is not our problem, call your boss, I asked for a driver nothing more, nothing less. This went on for a good while when she said that whatever me and her boss (which she didnt even know the last name of) discussed, wasn't her business. I said Fine! Then it's none of my business what you think either, Beijing city please.

She tried to make us go to Summer palace, but I said we dont have time, need to go back. We'd rather do some shopping in Silk Street before we get our trains back. She did keep trying for a while but came to a conclusion we weren't going to change our minds and left it at that.

Then things went real fast:
She asked because she got a low salary, sometimes tourist would give her a tip for the services. We all laughed and said yeah sure, winking at eachother like 'this girl is nuts'.
10 seconds later the 'would' became a should, and she explained us how we had to give her a tip for the services. Our laughing became louder and we told her sure we will take care of it as soon as we arrive.
10 seconds later she gave us a more detailed explanation and told us the tip should be at least 30 per person, so at least 120 RMB for the 4 of us...

Now the money is no problem, but with the directness and arrogance she explained this to us, we were just flabbergasted... We looked at eachother and agreed this girl is crazy.. she could use a wake up call. But I told my family, let's wait untill we are in Beijing before we do anything, I first want to get there.

It was quiet for a while when I couldnt help myself but asking her what she was thinking, I explained to her that we only asked for a driver, and what is she thinking trying to sell us the factory and trying to get money off of us. I told her I very specifically wrote down what I wanted to the person I first that was going to be the driver, but found out was just 'a colleeague' in her company. And i never asked for a guide so forget about a tip.

Long story short, they dropped us at Silk street, the driver asked her in Chinese if she got the other half of the trip's money already, she told him no. Ofcourse we could understand so I wanted to play it a bit slower. I wanted to get out of the van to stretch my legs, my relatives followed. She jumped out to get the money.
My sister politely gave her a handfull of bills, which was the exact amount we still owed for the trip because we are decent people. And then we walked off... she counted the money quickly and ran after us telling my girlfriend in Chinese: "you didnt include the tip I told about, did you forget it?"

We laughed at her and just walked off, what a ***.

Well done TIC.

"I asked for a driver [and van] nothing more, nothing less"

Good lesson for other Laowais. You see sheet starting, you stop it immediately, or refuse to proceed.

findus wrote:In the name of fcuking god, how many times.... Don't tip, it's not the done thing in China. This is not the USA.

Let me play devil's advocate here.
1. Service nearly universally sucks in China, where there is usually no tipping.
2. Going to TIC's story. Let's say he actually wanted a tour guide.
Scenario A: A guide just as he described, or even one who did a tour with a normal service level.
Scenario B: A guide who made their trip much more enjoyable, knew many interesting factoids about the GW, perhaps saved them money, was easy on the eyes and ears, etc.

How do you differentiate the 2 guides?
Now 1 side of this board would say don't tip, it's not the custom here...you'll "ruin" them. (how can they get more "ruined" than they are already??)

I'm more on the side of rewarding extraordinary service, but not normal service as we do in the USA. For example, when I go to the barber shop (to get a hair cut), I normally don't tip. I've got easy hair to cut, and I normally don't go back to the same guy anyway. My hair comes out looking the same no matter who cuts it. I get normal service that I paid a normal price for, I should expect that much.

I agree with fwerr, tip if you feel like it. I generally dont, but i do tip at the hair salon if i feel the shampoo boy/girl did a good job massaging my scalp, since im pretty sure they get paid crap, and i tip the guy in my complex that brings me my orders from the mini mart in yanlord, i get my orders faster that way. I also tend to tip cab drivers when im drunk.

I think a lot of expats haven't been exposed to the full spectrum of Chinese. I have seen many Chinese people tip here. Many of the richer ones do it for selfish reasons. They like people to jump when they snap their fingers and be at their beck and call. Certainly a lot of locals tip at clubs especially if they have a table and a waitress assigned. It IS expected. On the other hand, it is not common in taxis or regular restaurants. I've also seen people in my building give tips to security guards at new year in red envelopes. So to say there's no tipping in China is really not true. It depends on the situation.

zak102 wrote:You start tipping in China now, then every shabby service provider will keep standing there, waiting with a polite cough wanting 'more' when you pay up.

Let them stand, let them cough.
If you are not fully satisfied with their service, don't give a penny.
If you feel obligated, it is your problem, it does not mean tip system failed.

zak102 wrote:Gees, attend a high-end restaurant here and there is a 15% service surcharge.

That service charge goes to the establishment, not the wait stuff.
Jean George in the only restaurant in town, that prints on the menu "anything additional gratuity on top of the service charge is distributed among wait stuff".

In Europe, using France as an example, all menu price includes all taxes and service charges. Customers are not obligated to give additional tip. However, people with class usually give a small fixed amount like 10-20 Euro regardless how big/small the bill is, just as a token of appreciation for the service.

crivens200 wrote:

findus wrote:In the name of fcuking god, how many times.... Don't tip, it's not the done thing in China. This is not the USA.

I gave your Mum a tip.

chingiskhan wrote:I think a lot of expats haven't been exposed to the full spectrum of Chinese. I have seen many Chinese people tip here. Many of the richer ones do it for selfish reasons. They like people to jump when they snap their fingers and be at their beck and call. Certainly a lot of locals tip at clubs especially if they have a table and a waitress assigned. It IS expected. On the other hand, it is not common in taxis or regular restaurants. I've also seen people in my building give tips to security guards at new year in red envelopes. So to say there's no tipping in China is really not true. It depends on the situation.

Spot on.

At clubs if you have a table service, the wait stuff are standing by the entire time, mix your drinks, pour your drinks, wipe your table, light your cigarettes, hand you napkins, watch your stuff.... they do everything. At the end of night, it's usually 100 per head, that is expected, and every local customer understands and pays that.

Tipping is done more and more frequently by locals, I have seen it done in all scenarios.

Bottom line, it is personal choice. One shall not tip if he/she does not want to.
However, strongly discouraging/prohibiting others from tipping by saying it's not a China thing, sorry to say, that's just cheap people trying to make themselves feel better.

wow did not expect to be such a hot topic!!!!
Anyway..... given that to tip or not to tip is a personal choice and it is dependent on receiving a good service/experience by one own standards.....to stick to the original question, what would be a fair amount for a tour guide. To use fWerrF as an example at the end of the night RMB100 per person in a club is the norm so if you gave the waiter RMB10 per person would be silly just as much as giving them RMB300 per person

As long as we're on tipping please don't stiff the meimei's in a ktv, a lot of them could be working as a xiaojie but dont want men groping at them, hence they pour drinks and get ordered around for five hours. They deserve 200, each. Mommies on the other hand dont deserve squat, they already take 20% for booking the room, some of my friends say they too get 500 or whatever but i never had a mommie complain, they are happy to get the 20% and my repeat business.

^ The mamas get a cut of the girls fee as well...

^ and they smack them around, prob because they were once slapped around by one

TIC wrote:This topic came at the right time, something funny happened to us last week.
.....
We laughed at her and just walked off, what a ***.

Seems like you went to the wrong company to book a van and driver. If it were me, I would have made her climb the Great Wall for 4 hours (perhaps she could have been your guide, or perhaps she could have been your sherpa ) and tipped her the 30 kuai a head in the end.

My wife and I did a Great Wall Tour, arranged by the hotel we were staying at. There were 6 of us in a A/C, new mini van. It seemed like very good value, but what was included was a visit to a tea house, jade factory. which was all very interesting, but NO pressure to buy. YOUR CHOICE.
Yes, there were kick backs, but that was not our business.
NO suggestion of tips, and I like that.
These people get their back handers from the 2 or 3 companys they visit.
Fine with me.
A bit different from tipping.

I think some people here do not understand what a tip is. By definition it is a VOLUNTARY payment. What does voluntary mean? If you don't know, it means it's UP TO YOU whether you pay it or not. If you don't want to then don't tip, but for those who want to they have every right to do so. How bloody arrogant is it to say I don't tip AND I won't allow other people to tip either. If I want to tip it's my right to do so. Shut the feck up.

crivens200 wrote:

findus wrote:In the name of fcuking god, how many times.... Don't tip, it's not the done thing in China. This is not the USA.

I gave your Mum a tip.

That was my dad, dumbnuts.

chingiskhan wrote:I think some people here do not understand what a tip is. By definition it is a VOLUNTARY payment. What does voluntary mean? If you don't know, it means it's UP TO YOU whether you pay it or not. If you don't want to then don't tip, but for those who want to they have every right to do so. How bloody arrogant is it to say I don't tip AND I won't allow other people to tip either. If I want to tip it's my right to do so. Shut the feck up.

If you wan't to make people feel really uncomfortable, then you are of course correct.