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Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Why Don't Shanghai Expats Drive a Car

Poll ended at Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:38 am

Its to Dangerous
5
29%
Its to difficult to obtain a driving licence
0
No votes
Its to expensive to obtain a Shanghai plate
2
12%
Its just to much hassle and Taxis are cheap
10
59%
 
Total votes : 17

Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby chingiskhan » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:54 pm

Klick wrote:
chingiskhan wrote:
Klick wrote:[Some of the highest-package expats I know work for companies that have clauses in their contracts which expressly forbid them from driving here, for liability reasons.


Seems ironic to me that some of these people would be far safer driving themselves than letting taxi drivers take responsibility for their lives.


Those people don't take taxis. They have company-issued cars with drivers.


They must surely at some point have to ride in a taxi (late night, driver's day off)?
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby Klick » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:22 am

chingiskhan wrote:They must surely at some point have to ride in a taxi (late night, driver's day off)?


Maybe occasionally, but I'm sure they're not shaking in their boots about it. I mean, if it's a late night because you've been out on the town, you're not driving yourself anyway, are you?
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby Chavster » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:27 am

The metro/bus service here is extremely good. Trains are good.
Taxis are dirt cheap and relatively safe compared to other countries.

Getting a license is a hassle. Plates are a hassle and expense. Parking is expensive. Driving is stressful. Traffic is mental. Traffic is dangerous. It's usually faster to walk, bike or metro during most hours. Cars are a liability. If you live downtown everything is a 5 minute walk away.

And then there is the liability issue. Ok - I don't put any stock in urban legends about people throwing themselves in front of cars. It seems ludicrously unlikely to me. But getting entangled in legal red tape after a perfectly legitimate accident/incident doesn't seem remotely unlikely at all. If you are not on a dip passport then it's not worth the risk. This isn't a country with rule of law or a sensible legal system. If you happen to hit a kid or an elderly or get involved in any dispute and god forbid you are an American driving an SUV then you my friend are f***d.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby chingiskhan » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:43 am

Chavster wrote:And then there is the liability issue. Ok - I don't put any stock in urban legends about people throwing themselves in front of cars. It seems ludicrously unlikely to me. But getting entangled in legal red tape after a perfectly legitimate accident/incident doesn't seem remotely unlikely at all.


I think that is more common in lower tier towns / cities. In Shanghai there are too many cameras on every street. But what DOES happen is people getting knocked down accidentally and then milking if for all it's worth.

Friend of mine has a foreign employee who hit a woman while on his scooter and he got well and truly screwed. Settled a huge over the top amount, but then she came back again with follow up claims. He was due to fly home for Christmas vacation and was prevented because the police held his passport until the case was settled. Victim I think just got a friendly doctor to keep coming up with new issues related to the accident.

My law professor in the UK once joked that if you hit someone with your car and don't have insurance, it's better to back up and finish them off, because it's much cheaper to pay a one off compensation fee than to support someone for the rest of their lives.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby wagnett » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:55 am

I'm one of the lucky expats with car and driver. But it is mostly for the family living out west in the SAS neighborhood; even on days they don't need the driver I ride metro into Lujiazui because despite the line 2 crowds I would rather have that hassle than sit in traffic adding to the pollution.

My former boss said when I was coming that I shouldn't try to drive here until my Mandarin was good enough to negotiate with everyone at an accident scene...even accepting that the payments would be higher as a laowei even if fluent.

Having a license and car for the occasional country drive does sound nice, but day-to-day here no thanks.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby chingiskhan » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:17 am

wagnett wrote:I'm one of the lucky expats with car and driver. But it is mostly for the family living out west in the SAS neighborhood; even on days they don't need the driver I ride metro into Lujiazui because despite the line 2 crowds I would rather have that hassle than sit in traffic adding to the pollution.

My former boss said when I was coming that I shouldn't try to drive here until my Mandarin was good enough to negotiate with everyone at an accident scene...even accepting that the payments would be higher as a laowei even if fluent.

Having a license and car for the occasional country drive does sound nice, but day-to-day here no thanks.


Very sensible, although I think most other people in your lucky situation would rather sit in traffic than brave the crowd with the peasants :D
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby Asylum-seeker » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:19 am

I drive because I don't have to put up with people's bad breath, BO, the pushing and shoving in the subway. Don't get me started with the taxis, some drivers are just plain rude, the inside of the taxis are atrocious, saw a booga on the back seats video screen once, the smell of cigarettes and some drivers don't even turn on the aircon to save gas.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby Klick » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:31 am

chingiskhan wrote:Very sensible, although I think most other people in your lucky situation would rather sit in traffic than brave the crowd with the peasants :D


I personally get a kick out of the subway. I love how you can stare at people here. In NYC or London I would get on and keep my head down and get lost in my own little world like everyone else, because if you look at other people, of course it won't take long until you find someone who takes it as a challenge and next thing you know it's a whole scene. Here I can people-watch, which is about my favorite thing to do. I'm fascinated by the fluid dynamics of the mass of people when it's crowded, how somehow everyone manages to get on and get off even though there's no discernable order to it. I will take that over sitting in traffic any day.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby chingiskhan » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:41 am

Asylum-seeker wrote:I drive because I don't have to put up with people's bad breath, BO, the pushing and shoving in the subway.


Klick wrote:I personally get a kick out of the subway. I love how you can stare at people here.


Very interesting to see the two polar opposite attitudes. I agree with both, depending on my mood I guess.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby MarvinHC » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:03 pm

Klick wrote:
chingiskhan wrote:Very sensible, although I think most other people in your lucky situation would rather sit in traffic than brave the crowd with the peasants :D


I personally get a kick out of the subway. I love how you can stare at people here. In NYC or London I would get on and keep my head down and get lost in my own little world like everyone else, because if you look at other people, of course it won't take long until you find someone who takes it as a challenge and next thing you know it's a whole scene. Here I can people-watch, which is about my favorite thing to do. I'm fascinated by the fluid dynamics of the mass of people when it's crowded, how somehow everyone manages to get on and get off even though there's no discernable order to it. I will take that over sitting in traffic any day.


Can't comment about NYC but in London nobody cares if you look around, never had any kind of aggression on the tube.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby chingiskhan » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:57 pm

MarvinHC wrote:Can't comment about NYC but in London nobody cares if you look around, never had any kind of aggression on the tube.


Yes, I am from London. As long as you don't touch yourself inappropriately while you stare, it's fine :D
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby Asylum-seeker » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:58 pm

chingiskhan wrote:
Asylum-seeker wrote:I drive because I don't have to put up with people's bad breath, BO, the pushing and shoving in the subway.


Klick wrote:I personally get a kick out of the subway. I love how you can stare at people here.


Very interesting to see the two polar opposite attitudes. I agree with both, depending on my mood I guess.

Sorry I'm not a people person, I hate crowds, I'm not exactly a social butterfly.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby MarvinHC » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:00 pm

chingiskhan wrote:
MarvinHC wrote:Can't comment about NYC but in London nobody cares if you look around, never had any kind of aggression on the tube.


Yes, I am from London. As long as you don't touch yourself inappropriately while you stare, it's fine :D


I guess that's advisable anywhere in the world :D
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby woyechijing » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:19 pm

chingiskhan wrote:
MarvinHC wrote:Can't comment about NYC but in London nobody cares if you look around, never had any kind of aggression on the tube.

Yes, I am from London. As long as you don't touch yourself inappropriately while you stare, it's fine :D

you mean, you can't scratch your balls in the london tube? :o
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby chingiskhan » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:32 pm

woyechijing wrote:
chingiskhan wrote:
MarvinHC wrote:Can't comment about NYC but in London nobody cares if you look around, never had any kind of aggression on the tube.

Yes, I am from London. As long as you don't touch yourself inappropriately while you stare, it's fine :D

you mean, you can't scratch your balls in the london tube? :o


Of course, you can. You just can't touch yourself inappropriately :D
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby Klick » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:04 pm

chingiskhan wrote:
MarvinHC wrote:Can't comment about NYC but in London nobody cares if you look around, never had any kind of aggression on the tube.


Yes, I am from London. As long as you don't touch yourself inappropriately while you stare, it's fine :D


I dunno lads, I used to take Piccadilly line every day to and from work and for sure I would see a lot more unbridled, barely contained (if contained) aggression regularly there than I've ever seen here in Shanghai.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby chingiskhan » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:05 am

Klick wrote:
chingiskhan wrote:
MarvinHC wrote:Can't comment about NYC but in London nobody cares if you look around, never had any kind of aggression on the tube.


Yes, I am from London. As long as you don't touch yourself inappropriately while you stare, it's fine :D


I dunno lads, I used to take Piccadilly line every day to and from work and for sure I would see a lot more unbridled, barely contained (if contained) aggression regularly there than I've ever seen here in Shanghai.


Yes, the people are much nicer on the central line :D
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby Klick » Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:35 am

chingiskhan wrote:
Yes, the people are much nicer on the central line :D


Stay away from those Northern Line bastards though. Complete c***s.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby rolandchina80 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:01 pm

Hey, come on, I was on that Northern line and they are the nicest people around. Flat caps and whippets on the train, breakfast pies being munched, the odd woodbine smoker on the platforms and then when we get close to the big smoke, all the excited chatter and how they may get a glimpse of the Queen and looking at Nelson's column, some of the daring ladies saying they might even give Nelson's column a stroke, oh how we laughed. Then a pint of warm bitter and a good old moan on how the southern softies cant pull a decent pint. Then back on the Northern line for a sing song home, a collection in a flat cap for the driver and some fish and chips wrapped in newspaper from the corner chippie and of course a decent pint with a proper head on it to round of the day and being thankful to get to our terraced house, with our 24 siblings for a good nights sleep, glad to be living at the northern end of the Northern line.....
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby zhengheren » Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:12 pm

roverbjc wrote:
zhengheren wrote:1) The dealer will rip you off and overcharge you when you buy.
2) Any used car will have the same over-pricing issue.
3) You are a walking wallet and target for any insurance and injury and lawsuit scammers. "I was hit by a foreigner! I don't need to work ever again!".
4) When you attempt to sell it, no one will buy and you will have to dump it at the last minute at a massive loss when you leave the country.

Buying a car is just another way for China to keep your money.


Just on point 1, the recommended retail price of cars in China is published on http://chinaautoweb.com/ and Chinese friends can easily look up the "expect" to pay price on the web for you. My experience was that discounts were offered easily.


Did not matter if I knew the price - they simply would refuse to give me a 'good deal'. Laowai face, price goes up. A simple and easy to understand dynamic.

In the rest of the country, 3/4 Tier, when your "friend" negotiates a price and then you show up with money and to sign, all of a sudden the price goes up. "No No No No No! Wrong price."

Of course you could put the paper in your 'friends' name, but then you just handed a Chinese person your money.

In my experience, 100% of the time with people I know and the stories I have heard, when you do that, your money is gone.

I would just shake my head when yet another sad sack expat would tell me his tale of woe and financial evisceration. I learned from the mistakes of others, - it did not happen to me.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby rolandchina80 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:55 pm

The above is a load of sh1t. I've bought houses and cars here at the same price as everyone else. Also sold a house (to a Chinese person) at very good profit. Never heard of the program 'Dodgy Deals' in the UK, any sap in any country will get ripped off. Why would a car showroom let a customer walk out without a sale, a sale they will be making profit and commission on? So everything you have ever bought in China has been inflated because of your 'Laowai' face. Maybe you just look like a dick.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby Mel69 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:46 pm

rolandchina80 wrote:The above is a load of sh1t. I've bought houses and cars here at the same price as everyone else. Also sold a house (to a Chinese person) at very good profit. Never heard of the program 'Dodgy Deals' in the UK, any sap in any country will get ripped off. Why would a car showroom let a customer walk out without a sale, a sale they will be making profit and commission on? So everything you have ever bought in China has been inflated because of your 'Laowai' face. Maybe you just look like a dick.


Im going to have to agree that, in some cases and for some low grade things like in the wet markets you will pay a skin tax as you do in any part of the world where you are an expat .
But I have bought a couple of cars and tons of electronic equipment here and got pretty good deals on most of them .
So not sure what is zhengheren problem , also know many expats here that have purchased and sold cars without issues
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby postbus » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:00 pm

I am not in Shanghai yet...
I used to have my own care everywhere I have been . Not necessary to come to work and back home, but to travel around - on weekends or free days. Does this make sense? How long does it take to excape from the city and to be in the "outback"?
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby Mister_happy » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:35 pm

postbus wrote:I am not in Shanghai yet...
I used to have my own care everywhere I have been . Not necessary to come to work and back home, but to travel around - on weekends or free days. Does this make sense? How long does it take to excape from the city and to be in the "outback"?


Its a FIVE hour drive to escape Greater Shanghai........
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby D.ORiGiNAL » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:54 pm

rolandchina80 wrote:So everything you have ever bought in China has been inflated because of your 'Laowai' face. Maybe you just look like a dick.


:lol: :lol: :lol: New sig!
"rolandchina80 : So everything you have ever bought in China has been inflated because of your 'Laowai' face? Maybe you just look like a dick."
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby vrahul1984 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:29 am

Mister_happy wrote:Following my third conversation with a family on where to go to at the weekends I was shocked that they did not have a car. As a teacher I am not the highest paid expat here in Shanghai but even I can afford a car!

Its not that dangerous driving on the roads here in China and I have lived in the Middle East where it is near suicide to drive.

Its not that difficult to get a driving licence as even the Chinese can do it.


nice efforts !

thanks for all post information. its very useful but when i was in Australia, i came to know about one site on internet which gives best fact based stats / information of all regions / states of Australia. They have detailed stats, information & map view of every location of Australia. I was hoping similar kind of site for Hua Hin state. Kindly let me know, if anyone knows about any site similar to the said site. Actually am looking for a place for investment purpose. Hoping best reviews on this post. Regards !
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby duailli » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:42 pm

rickettyrabbit wrote:
Are that many expats not native English speakers?


Sorry to pollute the thread with an off-topic subject, but I use the occasion to ask a question:
Are these website and forum exclusively designed for native English speakers ?
I noticed on many occasions how much the English level of people is criticised.
For your information, here are some information about foreigners in China (data from 2011, I did not have time to look for more recent data):
"Of all foreigners covered, 120750 were from the Republic of Korea, 71493 the United States, 66159 from Japan, 39776 from Myanmar, 36205 from Viet Nam, 19990 from Canada, 15087 from France, 15051 from India, 14446 from Germany, and 13286 from Australia. The remaining 181589 persons came from other countries."
http://www.stats.gov.cn/english/NewsEve ... 26451.html
So, considering that only people from Corea, Japan, Myanmar, Viet-Nam, France and Germany are non native English speakers, it seems that at least 55% of foreigners in China are not native English speakers.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby Mel69 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:51 pm

IDIOT
Stress , Confusion created when one's mind overrides the body's basic desire to choke the living shirtout of some idiot A H who desperately requires it

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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby johnnythefunnyguy » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:33 pm

Different situations I guess, renting or buying.

I am sure that if a Chinese license was not required, lots of expats would definitely try to rent a car and drive.

I do have the precious Sesame, lucky Belgians, so it is very nice to rent a car and escape to places like Moganshan, Qiandaohu or Simingshan for the weekend.

Now, buying a car is a different things, it's expensive, so to hang out within the city center, I prefer by taxi or to have a driver.

Well, Chinese roads are dangerous, I am confident in my driving skills but I am scared of others off course. If you have a problem, we are laowais so already not good, if you don't speak Chinese also not very good. So I just hope nothing will happen and that's it, that does not prevent me to rent a car.

If I had a lot of money in Shanghai, I would buy one knowing that the car might stay most of the time in the garage.

So, why shg expats dont drive cars? For me, because it is expensive.
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Re: Why don't Expats Drive Cars

Postby blackhatdude » Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:09 am

Nice calves, my dude.
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