winnie, thanks.

oh yeah, i forgot one last small important thing.. I speak fluent mandarin, probably even better than my english.... so i think the language thing shouldn't be an issue... but my mandarin is Taiwanese mandarin...

chiedog wrote:winnie, thanks.

oh yeah, i forgot one last small important thing.. I speak fluent mandarin, probably even better than my english.... so i think the language thing shouldn't be an issue... but my mandarin is Taiwanese mandarin...

Speaking the language, will be a great help (but Taiwanese Mandarin are you referring to Muyu or Guoyu?), & would likely open other possibilities for you in the future. I've met a few guys over the years who are overseas born Chinese working for American or multinational companies that have been selected for their skills & Mandarin language abilities to run or oversee operations in China. Nice salaries with all the expat trimmings plus the prestige etc.

While that might seem great on the surface, though it may seem is not that at all. Often they've actually been caught between two worlds & consequently face some really difficult pressures which includes the common pressures, stress's, frustrations & challenges facing almost everyone doing business with China/Chinese (those that do so who read this will understand what I'm meaning), but also because these guys have Asian/Chinese features they faced other stressors; - locals admiring & looking up to them on one hand, but simultaneously despising (jealousy) them on the other. -Treated like an outsider & a threat at certain times in certain aspects, yet told otherwise when the situation suits e.g. "oh come on we always do it this way, you are Asian/Chinese you know that" type of scenario.
There were also issues concerning respect or lack thereof in certain aspects. All of them that I have come to know, while they have enjoyed the experience to some extent, can't wait to leave. This might be somewhat different to say an overseas born Chinese who might have lots of family ties here still.

These types of pressures are somewhat different to those that a white/fair skinned Caucasian is likely to experience.

While the lifestyle and opportunity might seem very attractive outwardly, it it can be very stressful, and is likely to be so at the expense of your own health (not an issue that tends to get much airplay on these types of forums). There are other health issues that one can face doing business here some of which might be obvious; tobacco exposure & addiction, alcohol use & abuse, stress, diet, lack of regular physical exercise, relationship issues to name but a few. There can be more long term health issues that men tend to not recognise or seek professional help with early on (when compared with women).
I have come across quite a few men that over time working here develop early signs of depression, with some developing clinical depression.

It can look like a candy shop to some from the outside, but - it's not.

Anter wrote,
You will live comfortably in Singapore on a minimum of 70 K Sing before tax and with other benefits.

fWerrF wrote: People have different definition for "comfortable".
I think 70k SGD pre tax is very little money to live on. You can barely afford a nice luxury apt in city center.

I think this need to be put in the context of what I said in my previous post and I did say minimum.
Young backpacker types live on much less.

Older professionals live on much more but there are plenty of people who are middle income professionals who do not living in a luxury apartment in the city. They live in a very comfortable one a little further out.

If you are refering to the Orchard Road area as the city centre that for me is the least desirable location to be, too many people, tourists, hookers and traffic. When I go there I always focus on things a little further out and where the galleries and museums are. Night clubs and restaurants are everywhere.

Look at the demographic of Singapore the average income is 5K Sing, per month, I cannot recall the high and low range but in Malaysia the average is RM 4 K. per month, converts to about 1,250 K Sing per month. Singaporeans enjoy a very high standard of living.

Depending on your age and stage in life you will enjoy either city but in different ways.

If most of the woman in Shanghai are Chinese with a few other expat females mixed in you will find that Singapore has a much more diverse range of ethnicities. Sure it is mostly ethnic Chinese but there are gorgeous Indians and Malays as well as well , professional expat females and the other kind of expat females in the other profession.

If you are young and building some resources then go for the money but if you are older I'd consider lifestyle as well. Singapore is not isolated it is a very easy drive into Malaysia where there are lots of things to see and do plus with the conversion of currency you will have plenty of RM's to spend there

To add to that, I must say the dating scene is much more favorable for a guy like OP in Singapore.

One of my expat friends (all over Asia, in banking, white guy) says that in countries like Indonesia, China etc he is often wanted because of his money, whereas in Singapore, it's more genuine because women have the ability to earn their own keep. It's up to you, really.

i wont talk about business, but you will eat and live happily in Singapore, cos i cant even find a good canto eating place around here

not forgetting there are many ppl speaks cantonese there, JB just across Singapore can get you loads of pirated dvds with canto tvb series

Give it a try when you'r still young and single,
人生有几多个十年？

welcome chiedog. wow..you are great!!
then two of this places have not problem for you to stay then.
next time learn minan hua ( Hokkien) , so you can also move to taiwan...lol

One other thing. Take into account that the Yuan may appreciate dramatically against the USD while you are in SHG. That's another 30% bonus in annual salary and accrued savings that you send back home.

If I was in the OP's situation I'd go for Shanghai, despite the madness, or maybe because of it.

Leave Singapore for later in life. In you're industry there will be plenty opportunity to move there further down the line.

Enjoy SH.

jillstarr wrote:To add to that, I must say the dating scene is much more favorable for a guy like OP in Singapore.

One of my expat friends (all over Asia, in banking, white guy) says that in countries like Indonesia, China etc he is often wanted because of his money, whereas in Singapore, it's more genuine because women have the ability to earn their own keep. It's up to you, really.

How dare you say Indonesia?
Uncle Ohsh1t is gonna have a major problem with that

LOL..whatever... enjoy your life wherever you live.

[quote="fWerrF"][quote="jillstarr"]To add to that, I must say the dating scene is much more favorable for a guy like OP in Singapore.

One of my expat friends (all over Asia, in banking, white guy) says that in countries like [size=150][color=#FF0000]Indonesia[/color][/size], China etc he is often wanted because of his money, whereas in Singapore, it's more genuine because women have the ability to earn their own keep. It's up to you, really.[/quote]


How dare you say Indonesia?
Uncle Ohsh1t is gonna have a major problem with that [/quote]

It's true. I can say it because it's the TRUTH fwerffie baobei.

ayall wrote:i think i read somewhere that the average yearly wage in shanghai is like 4,000 RMB per year ($600)... so that means lots of people (likely the large majority) are living on less then that and managing to do alright... i think i read the labor wage is about 10 RMB/hour.

so the average local (the large majority) only works 400 hours a year? I think you need to re-read your somewheres...

OP - both locations have their own perks and drawbacks - if you are still having trouble deciding maybe make a list with a Shangai column and a S'pore column and compare it against your goals / wants / needs; sometimes it helps to see it on paper

Good luck!

jillstarr wrote:
It's true. I can say it because it's the TRUTH fwerffie baobei.

Come on most ppl here can not handle the truth

ship wrote:

ayall wrote:i think i read somewhere that the average yearly wage in shanghai is like 4,000 RMB per year ($600)... so that means lots of people (likely the large majority) are living on less then that and managing to do alright... i think i read the labor wage is about 10 RMB/hour.

so the average local (the large majority) only works 400 hours a year? I think you need to re-read your somewheres...

4000rmb a month is more like it.

If a remember correctly, the overall Shanghai average salary is ~3200.
BUT, that includes all the cheap labor workers from other provinces, like the waitress at local restaurants that's earning 1200-1500 a month.

hi all. thanks

toonster wrote:i wont talk about business, but you will eat and live happily in Singapore, cos i cant even find a good canto eating place around here

not forgetting there are many ppl speaks cantonese there, JB just across Singapore can get you loads of pirated dvds with canto tvb series

Give it a try when you'r still young and single,
人生有几多个十年？

Now you're frightening me, no good canto eating places in SH? Just when I was telling myself that I may finally be nearing the end of (lack-of) tim sum tunnel...

jillstarr wrote:To add to that, I must say the dating scene is much more favorable for a guy like OP in Singapore.

One of my expat friends (all over Asia, in banking, white guy) says that in countries like Indonesia, China etc he is often wanted because of his money, whereas in Singapore, it's more genuine because women have the ability to earn their own keep. It's up to you, really.

Couldn't have put it better. I have as many post-grad degrees as my white spouse and when I started going out with him, used to ask him not to walk too close to me when we were in Singapore lest people imagine that I were a SPG (sarong party girl). And he had to beg me to give up my career so that he could go ahead and fly in his.

And if tomorrow he should decide that he would prefer to be a barber instead of the GM of an MNC, no prob, I would be more than happy to pick up where I left off. Maybe I wouldn't have to deal with everyone's dirty socks anymore.

I would go for Singapore too if I were him.

You are being sarcastic right?

Come on, white men arent that special.

They have 2 eyes, 2 ears and 1 mouth.