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Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby GoonerFan » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:39 am

Hello Expats,

I have received an offer from a Chinese subsidiary of US MNC to work at their Shanghai office as engineer. They offer me

Month salary : RMB 35,000
Allowances (for meal,housing, taxes) : RMB 7500

The work location is in Pudong on line 2 metro (Zhangjiang High Technology Park) and I want to live close to the location. I live in Austin, Texas, USA currently and make about $95,000.

What do you guys think of the above salary? I know it is less than what I am making now if I do direct conversion from RMB to USD but that may not be correct way to evaluate the offer as the cost of living is different. Also, the work in Shanghai is more interesting and meaningful. Is the above salary comparable? Is it enough to live comfortably in Shanghai for a single guy? I don't have any family or kids.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby Moonlighting » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:18 am

For a businessman, you don't seem very good with numbers.

To go from $95,000 to $7,000 pay would be quite the pay cut. You could live just fine on the amount they're offering, but why would you take such a shellacking if you didn't have to?
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby theindianguy » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:40 am

Moonlighting wrote:For a businessman, you don't seem very good with numbers.

To go from $95,000 to $7,000 pay would be quite the pay cut. You could live just fine on the amount they're offering, but why would you take such a shellacking if you didn't have to?

Are you sure that you're correct with the numbers?

His total pay will be 42,000 rmb, which is roughly 7000 USD (per MONTH).
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby Shanghai Noob » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:43 am

GoonerFan wrote:Hello Expats,

I have received an offer from a Chinese subsidiary of US MNC to work at their Shanghai office as engineer. They offer me

Month salary : RMB 35,000
Allowances (for meal,housing, taxes) : RMB 7500

The work location is in Pudong on line 2 metro (Zhangjiang High Technology Park) and I want to live close to that location in a decent, nice 1 bedroom, 1 bath apartment. I live in Austin, Texas, USA currently and make about $95,000.

What do you guys think of the above salary? I know it is less than what I am making now if I do direct conversion from RMB to USD but that may not be correct way to evaluate the offer as the cost of living is different. I understand I won't be needing a car there. Also, the work in Shanghai is more interesting and meaningful. Is the above salary comparable? Is it enough to live comfortably in Shanghai for a single guy? I don't have any family or kids.


I'd have a long hard think before exploring that further (that's a reserved British way to say; no)

Zhangjiang High Tech Park is a big area with hundreds of tech companies/ HQs/ offices/ labs etc, there are some shopping malls now opening with the usual selection of restaurants and shops. Lots of cranes, construction and dust. It's intersected by massive roads and its a bastard to get a taxi there, Uber just about stretches that far! It's not a location I'd choose to live. A few stops up L2 is Century Park and Sci Tech, far nicer area to live. Or even further you can get from Puxi with no changes but it'd be a busy commute and, depending on the distances from the stations each end, easily take an hour.

It does have metro stops ZJ high tech and Jinke Lu BUT it's entirely possible that the company is nowhere near that metro line. You cannot afford a driver so you will be taking busy public transport, taxis or a bike/ walking (not normally a Texan's choice!).

Your housing is low. At or below half of what most younger/ no kids expats I know here get. If you spend 7,500 RMB a month in rent you would find an average 1-2 bed apartment in an average Chinese compound in an average area. It will be in no way comparable to space, quality, fittings in the US. It would be fine if you speak Chinese and are experienced in negotiating with a Chinese agent.

So, I'd only consider this if I was a) being made redundant b) wanted to travel a bit c) didn't fancy a 'career break' or a gap in the CV. If you really want to move to Shanghai then it's a point you can negotiate from but that's about it; offing someone a pay cut to move to the other side of the world is an insult, assuming it's not a 'demotion' or a step backward into a more junior role.

You don't say how much experience/ role/ type of engineer you are? I guess you're 30ish in a non management/ project type role. I'm assuming relocation/ healthcare/ some sort of return arrangements are covered and you understand the income tax implications.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby Shanghai Noob » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:01 am

You also say you don't want to travel more than 20 mins to work. Note that L2 is about 20 minutes walk from Cailun Lu depending on your office location. You could easily spend 20 minutes waiting for a taxi in rush hour/ longer in the rain to travel the same distance.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby Freedom » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:49 am

Don't forget to check if US MNC keep paying certain % social security tax and certain % Medicare on your earnings ? If not, your earning record in US social security administration will be "0" for the years you work in China. Depending on how many years you stay in China, it probably affect your social security in the future when you retire.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby burrito » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:54 am

I'm sure that $95K figure is per year and the other figures are per month.

It all really depends on what sort of contract you get. When I came over here I insisted that I stay on USA payroll and come as a true expat and not a local hire. That way I kept my USA salary, benefits, stocks, etc- just got to live over here. This is somewhat less permanent solution as it gets VERY expensive for the company.

7500 will be more than enough for a decent apartment out near that area (it is actually quite far from the "action" if you are single)- but if that also has to cover taxes you might be getting a raw deal. From my understanding, you will be on the hook to pay both USA and China income taxes. In my contract, they gave a "tax equalization" clause which made it so that I only had to pay the hypothetical tax if I stayed in USA. China income tax apparently adds up quite a bit. If you are looking for a western style apartment with central air and the sorts though- 7500 is not going to cut it. Also keep in mind that places here normally charge their rent in three month iterations- so have some saved up or ask for a relocation bonus.

Keep in mind that if you are local contract you will be making significantly less than you would in USA as an engineer- but still consistently more than local engineers. You also most likely won't have things like 401K, stock options, or any other of the perks that you would likely get at your Texas company. Also kiss all of those awesome nature places like Barton Springs and Enchanted Rock goodbye as you have to get considerably out of town to find nature that is clean/not-polluted enough to enjoy. Also you will have nothing really like Saltlick or County Line.

Long reply short- that's probably not a bad deal if you just want to come over here, party around for a year or so and experience a new culture- long term though you will be missing out on a lot of money. I was in a similar situation and had a great time- but once you start to want to get married and actually own a house, it's time to leave.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby Moonlighting » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:33 pm

theindianguy wrote:
Moonlighting wrote:For a businessman, you don't seem very good with numbers.

To go from $95,000 to $7,000 pay would be quite the pay cut. You could live just fine on the amount they're offering, but why would you take such a shellacking if you didn't have to?

Are you sure that you're correct with the numbers?

His total pay will be 42,000 rmb, which is roughly 7000 USD (per MONTH).


At $7,000 a month, he would be reducing his pay to $84,000 a year, which is almost $1,000 a month less, not to mention taxes and other expenses.

Moving abroad would usually mean a pay increase of sorts, along with some bonuses and benefits. Why would someone come here otherwise?
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby carolina2aus » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:51 pm

Don't know about Austin, but the Dallas/Fortworth area is a huge sh1tpit, a huge dump. I'd much rather live in Shanghai than in DFW.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby yoyoy » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:08 pm

^yeah, it's like a trailer park with a few tall buildings.

SH is the most international it gets. you get dumb down there, learn so much here.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby burrito » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:29 pm

Austin is like the anti-Texas. It is really beautiful, liberal, hilly, and has a great music scene. Tons of tech/engineering there too. Kind of the epitome of a college town. DFW definitely is not as cool... it all depends on where you live though.

It's all relative though. A lot of people I know from work here are renting 70 year government leases by Pudong Airport for $500k. In comparison, the same amount of money will get you a 5 bedroom mansion with a swimming pool and private garden in a very rich/nice/affluent area of DFW... and you actually own the land for life.

Alas though, I did move to Shanghai for a reason. If you are young, single, and have yellow fever you cannot compare Shanghai to any place in USA.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby GoonerFan » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:08 pm

Thank you all for sharing your opinion.
The US salary is annual salary of $95,000. And I am mechanical engineer with PhD from the UT Austin and seven years of experience. No, I am not offered a expat position because It is not from my current company.

I was considering the offer to experience a new place, culture but it doesn't seem that good choice compare the Austin, where I run/bike outdoors regularly near the Lake.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby SoFarSoGood » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:41 pm

OP, it seems like you have a good job and more importantly you are not looking for new job. From what I can tell, the MNCs local arm is rather looking for fresh meat.

Most expats who are coming to China with local contract are a) looking for a job b) frustrated in their current job c) want overseas exp. on their cv d) fell for yellow fever etc. No one in their right mind comes to here unless there is no better option. Drinking & Eating is the only past time what people have in this city.

Don't take the bait. This city got very expensive in the last 3-4 years.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby yoyoy » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:49 am

classified 8)
Last edited by yoyoy on Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby GoonerFan » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:17 am

Yoyoy,

Thanks a lot for informative reply. How much do you think would a rent for decent, clean 1 bed room apartment in that area near kerry center or century park?
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby yoyoy » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:11 am

^ 1 bedroom? I think around 3-5k
Last edited by yoyoy on Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby synecdoche » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:18 pm

I pay 2000 RMB for a one bedroom apartment in Hongqiao, two blocks from Hongmei Lu.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby burrito » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:44 pm

I'd only recommend going with a 3-5k a month apartment if you are fluent in Chinese and fully know what to expect from a Chinese lifestyle perspective. The housing conditions will be very "local" full of people with the same "local" behaviors. For details, check the following:
viewtopic.php?t=173271#p1969492

If you like the Austin lifestyle for its outdoor aspects- I'd strongly recommend you look somewhere like Taipei or Tokyo. Yes, there are places to go running here in Shanghai. It's not like Lake Travis though. The air is tends to make LA smog look like mile high Denver at most times and you will notice.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby freddiesdead » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:29 pm

If you like sex, come to Shanghai. Everything else about it is pretty bad. But the triangle that drives men wild can make up for a lot :D

The other good point is, if you have a brain you will quickly get over the mentally-retarded US fixation with Communism. The problems of China have nothing to do with communism.

If you could find somethng in a more interesting city it would be better. Shanghai is past its sell-by date. Food is bad, prices are ridiculous, people are snotty. Almost anywhere else would be a better choice.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby yoyoy » Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:26 pm

this is china, if you're going to come here, you expect to not live with chinese people? haha that's funny.
that area is new, so most housing around there would be good and only quite rich people chinese or not would live there.
they have a bike and running track around that park right? it's lot better than most big cities. this's a mega city.. so you can't compare it to a big town austin

taipei air is toxic ruined by gas scooters where as china's are electric.

tokyo... well.... shoe boxes.. and cost way too much.


also don't know what kinda of people you meet... but snotty??? how? who? can you enlighten on this?

food is real international... any kind of you can find here... good and bad.

expensive??? i don't understand. my electricity water cable wifi come to max 200rmb a month. my phone bill is 25rmb a month 60min free call and 450m data. after that is like 0.15rmb a minute and 0.3rmb a meg. every thing is cheap in super markets and even cheaper in wet markets like 2-4rmb for veggies 30cents to 80cents half a kilo. beer soda etc.... way cheap.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby yoyoy » Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:55 pm

sorry i mean 22rmb a month not 25 :lol:
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby Asylum-seeker » Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:19 pm

yoyoy wrote:taipei air is toxic ruined by gas scooters where as china's are electric.

And there are hardly any cars in Shanghai, the sky is always blue, the AQI is alway below 40 :lol:
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby yoyoy » Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:33 pm

^actually these few months it was around that... with only one time about a week ago went pass 100.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby burrito » Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:54 pm

Yes, but we are comparing to Austin TX. A place where over 50 is considered extremely bad. Do you know what the AQI is in Austin right now? 15. In Shanghai it is 142. That's nearly 10x worse. I understand- different cities... but if you are an outdoor lover it is definitely something to consider.

It is a nice area- just a little boring. You can absolutely find cheap housing out by that area- but it is not going to be comparable to an Austin apartment. The quality of life is just not going to be the same unless you pay more though. I've lived in downtown Austin before and I work near Zhangjian area... and they are definitely not comparable. Who knows- maybe this isn't a big issue. If you like to just stay inside all day and read than it doesn't matter where you live.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby yoyoy » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:08 pm

^bull... it's 69, this moment looking at my app.

well... theres a saying:
good mountain good water good boring, good dirty good chaos good times.

chinese saying :)
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby Moonlighting » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:14 pm

As was mentioned, it really has more to do with what you're looking for in life.

If you want an interesting adventure and to meet all sorts of interesting people, good and bad, from all over the world, and seeing and experiencing things that will shock and amaze you, then yes, come.

But, if you're looking for a normal life and are trying to save money for the future, etc.... stay home.

But most of all, if you are hooked on decent internet, then you'll pull your hair out in frustration living here.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby yoyoy » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:26 pm

^ also don't understand about internet speed, mine's like 20m fiber i think... stream online hd videos no problems at all.... go to any site is instantaneous. there is nothing wrong with internet speed here... it's lightning fast.


facebook youtube google is blocked.... don't know how fast it goes if you use a vpn.


i just use a free one and check email or visit a blocked one once a while.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby freddiesdead » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:29 pm

yoyoy wrote:that area is new, so most housing around there would be good

"Good" would depend on your level of experience. Coming from Austin, the o.p. is probably expecting square walls, electrical sockets that actually work, bathroom fixtures that work, hot water at a stable temperature, drains sized to pass water instead of clogging, insulation, just a myriad of details that you would not know about. Housing here is better than a cave, it's true. But it's also two to three times more expensive than almost anywhere else in China.

this's a mega city.. so you can't compare it to a big town austin

True. It's a mega city, so you won't have any art, theatre, or music. You can have all the overpriced pretentious no-talent crap you can stand, tho.

also don't know what kinda of people you meet... but snotty??? how? who? can you enlighten on this?

The shanghai ones. The non-natives tend to be friendlier but a lot of them have less than no manners. Elsewhere here you can find the stories, but my favorite has to be in the shopping center across from Jing'an Park. There's a little lane between jing'an si and the shopping center. Trees in planter boxes. Middle-aged lady holding her twelve-year-old's peepee while he watered the trees in the middle of a shopping crowd. It was more funny than disgusting, but when you make claims of "mega-city" compared to little ol' Austin, well ...

food is real international... any kind of you can find here... good and bad.

There's good at some extremely expensive restaraunts - more than $40 for a steak that would bring maybe $17.50 in Austin, and is nowhere near as good - but otherwise, it's awful.

Shanghai food - noodles. Noodles. And more noodles. In general, overcoooked noodles in a bowl of hot water with a few pieces of gristly cat guts and a leaf or two off some plant growing in the park thrown in. Bread, maybe 20% sugar and that awful yellow color from half a bottle of artificial vanilla extract per loaf. So soft it makes Wonderbread look like pumpernickel. If you hunt really hard you can find some bread that's edible. You could make a fortune importing sourdough French, I imagine.

Oh yeah, they make some rolls and other unidentified bread-like objects ... which would be edible if they didn't insist on inserting some kind of disgusting ground extract of dead rat into and on top of everything. Sometimes you'll buy a roll because it looks okay, only to take a couple bites before that hidden whatever it is makes you spit it out violently.

Shanghai is famous throughout China for crappy food. No taste. No salt. Lots of sugar. You can identify a real Shanghai native through a princess and the pea test - put two grains of salt on a piece of meat and they can't eat it - "Too salty !" Everyone in the whole country knows this. This is one case where the "everyone says" is true. Food elsewhere is pretty good.

Even the Chinese restaraunts in Shanghai have gone to sh1t. ALL China restaraunts EVERYWHERE in the country used to immediately drop a bowl of peanuts on the table along with a pot of tea. I guess there's a Great Peanut Shortage in Shanghai now. Haven't seen my peanuts in several years. Plus a lot of places are now charging for tea ! In China ! Disgusting.

Foreign food, be still, my heart. $8 hamburgers that taste like ... I dunno. Can't tell what animal they came from. Tuna fish pizza. Burritos with corn in them, fer chrissake ! The tortilla is made from some high-strength glutinous substance that can't be torn or chewed by human teeth. And no flavor to anything. Mexican food has spices. In China, they can only comprehend "hot" so instead of spices, they just put five pounds of ground red pepper on everything. This is true of 'spicy' sichuan and hunan food too. No taste, just large amounts of red pepper on top of the worst grade meat you can find. Entrails, actually.

Oh wait ... the big surprise for a consumer of Austin China food - meat is not cut off the bones in real Chinese food. This is okay. But what they do instead is chop up the animal with a hatchet like the Swedish Chef. Bjork bjork bjork ! Do you like bone splinters ? Good. You'll get your share and then some.

Here's a free hint - chew carefully. There will be stems and seeds, bones and rocks in everything. You can break teeth. I do know a really good dentist tho. She's an ace. Lots of practice, I guess. (She's not from Shanghai, so it's safe to go there without your kevlar ass-protector. Altho her prices have doubled over the past ten years, too. Inflation heap good ! umm, yeah)

expensive??? i don't understand .... way cheap.

Compared to a few years ago, a 100 rmb note will buy about what a 20 used to buy. Around ten years ago, stuff was cheap. But since then, in general, the quality has remained the same or degenerated while the prices have quintupled. The buildings look nicer, the decorations are better, children don't follow you around in Shanghai going, "Mommy ! Mommy ! Look ! A foreigner !" but overall, Shang is no longer a winnah ! winnah !

The negatives have multiplied, the positives gone home to visit mum.

On the plus side, it's very different from Texas. Some people are nice. It's a good experience to get out of that propaganda echo chamber that calls itself "America" and see what the world is really like. Transportation is good. Trains are great. The subway in Skankhai is good. I don't know about the bars now but they used to be eye-openers. The place is loaded with nubile young ladies looking for a meal ticket. Quit acting righteous, guys are looking for that patch of heaven in a girl's jeans. It's a fair bargain.

It'd be good for a year but Nanjing would be better. Shanghai is very artificial and not really a good bargain.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby burrito » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:34 pm

yoyoy wrote:^bull... it's 69, this moment looking at my app.

well... theres a saying:
good mountain good water good boring, good dirty good chaos good times.

chinese saying :)


I normally go off:
http://aqicn.org/city/shanghai/

I have my own detector and the numbers on this site are pretty inline.
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Re: Moving to Shanghai from Texas

Postby yoyoy » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:45 pm

^ you should stop using that site.

it's been raining all day it can't be 142, when it passes 100 usually can tell by looking outside. it looks like a 69
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