My daughter is 12 and just finished Grade 6. She has been homeschooled the whole way, using a classical approach. That means a rigorous academic curriculum including Latin. She's a hard worker and is learning how to learn and think for herself. The plan is to move to Shanghai in October for 6 months.

Since she has some Mandarin language background, our first thought was to have her take intensive Mandarin classes for 3 months and then put her into a local school. I see now that that might be too optimistic.

Is there such as thing as Chinese as a Second Language schools?

Our whole purpose is to have her learn Mandarin. (That's her heritage: she was adopted as a baby in Zhanjiang.) Perhaps we should stick to language classes and supplement with more home learning while we're there?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

There are international schools here that take foreign students and have mandarin studies as a second language. You can get alot of information about them from their webbsites. Just do a search for the following schools:
British International School Shanghai
Concordia International School Shanghai
Dulwich College Shanghai
Shanghai American School
Shanghai Community International Schools
Shanghai High School International Division
Shanghai Livingston American School
Shanghai Rego International School
Sino-Canada High School
The SMIC Private School
Western International School of Shanghai
Yew Chung International School of Shanghai

There are lots of reviews and comments on each of them on this site so do search here too.

Good luck!
Adrienne
http://www.shanghaiprops.com

Yes, if you do a search for bilingual schools here you will get a good cross section of comment.
I think Yew Chung as well as Shanghai Singapore international School have bilingual programmes .. you can go to their websites and check.

But for our daughter to really learn, I would think an international school would not be the best. Isn't there any other options?

We don't want to live in the expat bubble. This may be our only chance to introduce her to Chinese culture and language and if she hangs with English-speaking kids too much, she'll never learn. Defeats the whole purpose of moving to Shanghai, doesn't it?

The pupils in my school (the SSIS) speak two languages interchangeably. Unfortunately, this interchangeability is not total - many actually have a preferred and stronger language (Singaporeans = English, Koreans = Korean, Taiwanese = Mandarin...you get the drift). The 3 pupil populations I mentioned form the bulk of our enrolment (25% of each).

At the SSIS, we actually have 4 levels of Chinese standards for your child to progress - so she can actually move from Basic Chinese (equivalent to CSL) to local Chinese standards. Why not give a call to the Minhang campus (that's where our high school is - I'm from the elementary school) and check it out?

Who knows, perhaps in a year or so, she may get a standard good enough for the local schools? A warning though - Chinese academic rigour is even crazier than the Singapore school (which already has many western parents putting us at arms' length).

There are increasingly more local schools including an international stream. This generally means that you have to have a foreign passport and the classes are 30% english and 70% mandarin using the Chinese national curriculum but at a slower pace and smaller classes. These programs are much cheaper than international schools. Xu Hui High School is one of the better know ones. Y.K. Pao in the new kid on the block and they have recruited some foreign (British) certified teachers in addition to their local staff. They are located on Jiang Su Lu (where SCIS formerly was) and I believe they have a website. This is a topic of great interest to me since presently have our son in a local kindergarten. Our intention is for him to go into a local primary school. The problem that arises is that since we are not Chinese and our language skills are not up to the task of tutoring him or helping him in his homework, this means we will be looking for a Chinese tutor. I think this is challenging path to take (going local) but it will be worth it. The discipline is very strict in local schools and in China teachers are actually reveared and respected ( a nice change from America).

Here are the most common schools with contact information:

British International School, Shanghai (BISS), Pre-nursery to 11th grade (age 1-17), 86 21 5812 7455 ext. 203
British International School, Shanghai (BISS) – Puxi, Nursery to 11th grade (age 3-7) , 86 21 5226 3212 ext. 110
Concordia International School Shanghai (CISS), Preschool to 12th Grade, end of high-school (age 3-17), 86 21 5899 0380
Dulwich College International School, Shanghai (DCIS), Pre-Nursery to 12th Grade (age 1-17), 86 21 5899 3775
International Division of Jincai High School, First Grade to 12th Grade, 86 21 5833 1198
Japanese School in Hongqiao, 86 21 6401 2747
Livingstone American School, Pre-Kindergarten to 12th grade, end of high-school (4-17), 86 21 6238 3511
No.2 Secondary School of East China Normal University
Rainbow Bridge International School, Pre-School to 4th Grade (age 2-10), 86 21 6268 9773
Shanghai American School (SAS) - West Campus (Puxi), Pre-Kindergarten to 12th grade (age 4-12), 86 21 6221 1445
Shanghai American School (SAS) - East Campus (Pudong), Pre-Kindergarten to 12th grade (age 4-12), 86 21 6221 1445
Shanghai Community international School (SCIS) -Changning Campus, Preschool to 12th grade (3-17), 86 21 6252 3688
Shanghai Community international School (SCIS) - Hongqiao Campus, Preschool to 12th grade (3-17), 86 21 6261 4338
Shanghai Community international School (SCIS) - Emerald Campus, Preschool to 12th grade (3-17), 86 21 6242 3243
Shanghai French and German International School, French School, Kindergarden to 7th Grade, 86 21 6405 9220 ext 105
Shanghai French and German International School, German School, Kindergarden to 12th Grade (Age 3-17), 86 21 6405 9220 ext 116
Shanghai High School International Division, 1st Grade to 12th Grade (6-17), 86 21 6476 5516
Shanghai Korean School , Elementary School to Senior High School, 54794291
Shanghai Rego International School (SRIS), Nursery to 12th Grade (age 3-17), 86 21 6492 3431
Shanghai Singapore International School (SSIS) - Minhang Campus, Pre-school to 12th Grade (4-17), 86 21 6221 9688
Shanghai Singapore International School (SSIS) - Xuhui Campus, Pre-chool-Primary School, 86 21 6496 5550
Shanghai Singapore International School (SSIS) - Minhang Preschool Campus, Pre-School, 86 21 6296 6110
Shanghai Xiehe Bilingual School
Sino-Canada High School, 86 21 5111 3110
The SMIC Private School, Elementary School (1-6 grades), 86 21 5855 4588
The SMIC Private School, Middle and High School (7-11), 86 21 5855 4588
Western International School of Shanghai, Pre-school to 12th Grade (4-17), 86 21 6976 6388
Yew Chung International School, Shanghai - Hongqiao Campus, Nursery to 13th grade (Age 1-17), 86 21 5812 9888
Yew Chung International School, Shanghai - Gubei Campus, Nursery to 13th grade (Age 1-17), 86 21 6219 5910
Yew Chung International School, Shanghai - Pudong Campus, Nursery to 6th grade (Age 1-11), 86 21 6856 7202

Prices begin at 1.500,- USD a month and up!

Most international schools teach Chinese as this is part of being an international school

Wow, thanks everyone. I think we'll see what a few months of intensive Mandarin lessons do and then take it from there.

Why not try something that my children are doing? They are both homeschooled, but we hire Chinese tutors to teach them Chinese, using the local textbooks.

Yes, Michael, I do think this might be the way to go. Actually, I have a hard time letting go of homeschooling, since it has been a large and rewarding part of our lives for 7 years.

How is the language learning progressing for your children? I'd love to hear more about how you manage this. My daughter is quite social and I'm a little worried that she might be lonely. Are there many homeschoolers in Shanghai? And do your children have opportunities to use the Chinese? Have they made Chinese friends?

We've had some quotes from language schools and that seems quite an expensive way to go. Is tutoring more economical?

Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions, but anything you can tell me would give me a little piece of mind.

Sandy,

My situation may be different from yours, since my family is Singaporean Chinese, and we use both languages interchangeably in our home (with a preference towards English). My children mostly communicate in Chinese with their ayi (maid) and with their local friends (in the compound we live in, and in their taekwondo classes). The park and playground in our compound are good places to make friends.

My boys, like me, find Chinese tough to manage and to master. To me, there's no two ways about it - they have to learn Chinese, and learn it well, since it's part of our heritage (I'm a second generation Singaporean, while my wife is first generation...my grandfather and father-in-law emigrated from China). My firstborn is seven, and he's still a bit behind in written Chinese compared to the local children, though he can hold his own in Mandarin.

I'm not too sure how much we spend on the tutors, since my wife handles the Ministry of Finance in my home . I'm merely the President, who signs off the bills. I suggest you contact my wife via her website www.homeschoolshanghai.com regarding the questions. She's part of this homeschool group in Shanghai that ranges from pre-school all the way to high school. One of the kids in the homeschool group would be going to college (in the States) in a week or so I think.

I have a question about the Sino-Canada school--on it's website it has highschool/middle school curriculum guidelines, however it says it's just a high school. Is it just a high school with BC Ministry of Ed guidelines or is it a middle school and high school. Middle school for us folks in Ontario see that as Grade 6-8--Junior/Intermediate Elementary school. If it's a high school why is it advertising middle school?? They don't have contact info other than a phone number--no email--and I'm all about getting things in writing--visual learner here--someone can tell me something and I'll totally forget it or get mangled up like a broken telephone if I tell someone else the info--my partner

So what's the deal?

rucksack wrote:I think this is challenging path to take (going local) but it will be worth it. The discipline is very strict in local schools and in China teachers are actually revered and respected ( a nice change from America).

I'm sure you've given this careful consideration, but reverence and respect, discipline and order haven't been particularly prevalent in the classrooms I'm aware of. The classes tend to be bigger than most US schools (40 students) and the kids stay in the same room while the teachers rotate through. I haven't seen teachers praise progress, but they do berate and humiliate for mistakes.

Plus you're trading off critical thinking and creativity for voluminous memorization. There's rigorous and public ranking, and the kids at the top of the class are getting so much supplemental tutoring - 10 hours or more a week.

Plus, in a generally homogeneous culture that lacks in empathy, I would worry how an obviously different child would be handled, and wouldn't trust the school or teachers to intervene if he was bullied by other kids.

mswp wrote: I haven't seen teachers praise progress, but they do berate and humiliate for mistakes.

Once again, mswp, you've nailed it! My daughter's first Mandarin teacher, who taught kids in her home, would constantly scold and yell at her students for mistakes. The "good" kids would be given little rewards like Smarties, stickers, funny pencils, etc. Twice, at the end of the term, she gave cash prizes (in American dollars to Canadian children!) to the top 4 children in a class of 6. Needless to say, my daughter wasn't motivated to excel and she remains unenthusiastic about learning the language to this day. And she's very quick and intuitive with language: I have a hard time keeping ahead of her on our homeschool Latin studies.

A very good friend who was born and raised in Shanghai tells us that local schools are very competitive and no teacher would want a child in his or her class who was behind on language. It would reflect badly on the teacher and s/he would be very hard on our daughter.

mswp wrote: Plus you're trading off critical thinking and creativity for voluminous memorization. There's rigorous and public ranking, and the kids at the top of the class are getting so much supplemental tutoring - 10 hours or more a week.

As I said in my original post, learning how to learn and think for herself is a priority in our homeschool. It doesn't sound like a local school is going to be a good choice for us at all.

Thanks everyone for your imput. I know what we'll do now and I'm setting aside some math, logic and writing curricula to take with us in October. The priority will still be learning Mandarin though. Science and history will have to wait until we return to Canada.

And thanks so much to Michael. I will definitely check out your wife's blog. Funny, in our family I'm called the Chancellor of the Exchequer!

Sandylein wrote:Funny, in our family I'm called the Chancellor of the Exchequer!

Heh, different organisational structure!

redsneef wrote:I have a question about the Sino-Canada school--on it's website it has highschool/middle school curriculum guidelines, however it says it's just a high school. Is it just a high school with BC Ministry of Ed guidelines or is it a middle school and high school. Middle school for us folks in Ontario see that as Grade 6-8--Junior/Intermediate Elementary school. If it's a high school why is it advertising middle school?? They don't have contact info other than a phone number--no email--and I'm all about getting things in writing--visual learner here--someone can tell me something and I'll totally forget it or get mangled up like a broken telephone if I tell someone else the info--my partner

So what's the deal?

In America, we call it Junior High School and Senior High School (the word Senior is usually dropped). So they could be a high school with years 7-12. The high school in the USA that I went to was 7-12th grade....we shared the same facility and teachers.

My biggest advice is to get an ayi....an educated ayi and that she spends at least 2 hrs a day with your daughter. Get some kindergarten books and games..and start from there. I do not believe that kids will 'absorb'...with the experience of 3 kids learning chinese from ages 3-5 yrs old for over 5 years (english speakers at home so we choose when the kids start chinese), it is of utmost importance that they have an INTEACTIVE chinese experience - where they are forced to respond think and to questions. This way the ayi will be able to gauge and repond/repose the question to ensure that your daughter does understand what is going on. Personally, I believe in getting the child to speak in full sentences...the only way that you can be sure that the child is progressing in chinese.

Hey...
I am a Malaysian who have studied both in Malaysia and Chinese local schools.
I am bilingual and able to teach students up to Grade 11 on subjects such as Maths, Physics, Chemistry, English and Chinese.
Please feel free to contact me!!

international schools list:
http://www.brianrealestate.com/Shanghai ... hools.html

In the end, we've gone for an international school. Actually, we have free tuition at the school my husband teaches at, so we don't have any choice, but it's free so what the heck. The main concern was not the questions about the Chinese system and its many different qualities, but that the logistics were impossible. I would have to deliver 2 kids in opposite directions and in the interim I've had a third child, so it was really impossible. However, my kids are in no way becoming little Chinese conformists. They have us as their main influence. We draw at home and have free play time etc. etc. Plus, I encourage their individuality which makes their local teachers' jobs more challenging I'm sure. Each child has their own character and either you go with it or suppress it or whatever. Parents have so much influence over their kids. We support the teacher but we also encourage our kids' individual character because we are who we are. The local parents do what they do because of who they are. My oldest son was in local kindergarten for 5 years. He is the absolute worst conformist ever. The system that they have been in has as much influence as we support. Anyhow, I am happy that he's in international school. And, he's in the "Mother Tongue" Chinese class. There are so many pluses. However, I would still have my kids go through local kindergarten before they go on to international school, just for the language and cultural experience. The second child will be starting his second year of local kindergarten and he's so excited. Anyhow, good luck to everyone this school year. I hope you get what you pay for.

horsemandk,

You're list is very outdated. There is no longer a MH Pre-School campus at SSIS a long time ago.

Hi Sandylein,
I'm a private tutor, and have studuents in primary school.
They are learning English as secondary landguage. They all hope to communicate with foreign students.
I'm trying to introuduce some foreign students to them, they can learn and play together.
Your daughter can be homeschooled on workdays for the intensive class, and meet local children on weekends.

I am bringing my ten year old to shanghai. He is cantonese speaking and knows some mandarin and english. what are my options in schooling ?

Could anyone give some insights on comparison of international school and tips on admission?

Appreciate your help

I believe a search on "international schools" would give you tons of info, CL3000.

StMichael wrote:horsemandk,

You're list is very outdated. There is no longer a MH Pre-School campus at SSIS a long time ago.

That is because this is a July 2007 thread - someone dug up an old thread instead of posting a new topic.

You're right! Silly me!

Here is an article on SHX that might answer a lot of your questions about local schools: http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/article/pu ... -8388.html