wo chi shi wrote:

canuckian wrote:Well, most of the ones earn over 30k/month do not post here.

i dont think english teachers like to post here more than normal people.

most of the laowais i see look like professionals who for sure are making more than 30k per month.

So, English teachers are not normal people???

canuckian wrote:

ayall wrote:based on the above poll count of 36 - over half said under 30k/month!!
that doesn't even cover my rent.
As expat, i'd be truly interested to see how they live.

Well, most of the ones earn over 30k/month do not post here.
We'll talk again when the poll hits 360 respondents. Simple as that
I am shocked that you, as an expat who can afford 30k/month rent, never thought of it that way!

poll is closed genius.

i post here, and i personally know plenty of others who make over 30k/month who post here too (the poll alone proves that).

aLeGna wrote:

wo chi shi wrote:

canuckian wrote:Well, most of the ones earn over 30k/month do not post here.

i dont think english teachers like to post here more than normal people.

most of the laowais i see look like professionals who for sure are making more than 30k per month.

So, English teachers are not normal people???

Not sure about others..but there used to be an English Teacher back in 2009 something called MaraPenis. He was such a crap...

i remember one time i went back to visit family and we went to some local bar - totally white trash. during the conversation it was mentioned that i'd been living and working in china. so one of the patrons said "oh, you teach english?" uh, no, i have a real job.

made me think how embarrassing it would be if i actually had to respond "um, uh huh"

funny that was his first thought about whitey living in china.

ayall wrote:

findus wrote:

ayall wrote:^i too enjoyed procrast's post.

i'll drag my point out a little more, though i likely shouldn't.

i'm American, and i really love my home country.
there are some people who would never ever leave the country - they love it so much they can't stand to be away... you may call them close minded, but they are content with life.
i'm not one of those people and world travel is one of my favorite hobbies.
but living in shanghai is different then going to shanghai to visit for 2 weeks.

so; what i consider "norm" or "average" quality, is the life i would ideally live in the USA - the ease of language, comradery and all that it has to offer.
to get close - i'd have to live in a compound that the staff are all english speakers... my neighbors would all be American. i'm not going to find that here, but i can get close... and the closer i want to get, unfortunately, the most expensive it gets.

so for all the "teachers," while they might like the thrill of shanghai or living abroad at the same pay grade (or less) then they made in the USA - I truly wonder if there are many benefits of living in shanghai that outweigh the difficulties?

If i had an option to choose to live in any city in the world making the exact same wage(with cost of living adjusted) - shanghai would likely be towards the very bottom of the list while places like new york, London, Paris would be at the top.

So why bother coming to China??? You can live anywhere in the west and be surrounded by westerners, or better still live in America and be surrounded by your dream, all Americans.

yes, why bother indeed.

as i stated before, i wasn't at all enthused about coming to shanghai and refused until they made me an offer i couldn't refuse.

i had lived in tokyo for 2 years, and that was my first "international living abroad" experience... i enjoyed it, so i knew about the EXPAT lifestyle.

unfortunately due to the economy and stringent EU regulations on work permit - it's not so easy to just randomly pick any city in the world and move there/find a job (making the same wage (with cost of living adjusted)).

Clearly China is really just not your "thing" ...

But for a lot of people, it is. They like the language, they like the atmosphere, they would just as soon leave as have to live in some sterile compound with only other Americans. In the case of men, a lot of them are pretty pleased about the situation as regards the local ladies, too. So, they don't require a humongous expat package in order to be coerced to live in China. But you do.

There are two very different perspectives here.

Some of us come here mainly to see a new part of the world, often supporting ourselves as English teachers. In provincial China, lots of jobs in the 4500 rmb/month range are on offer, a few even lower. 6000 or 8000 would be considered a good rate. You don't work too hard in those jobs, though, usually under 20 hours a week of class time and not all that much preparation and marking.

Pushing it, taking a few part time jobs or working as an IELTS examiner, it is not difficult for an English teacher to get an income in the 12-20k range, but that involves working rather hard and getting above 20k or so is almost impossible.

With employer-provided housing and an annual ticket home, you can live decently (by some standards) on an English teacher's income. Living in a provincial city and not particularly watching my money, taking taxis everywhere and eating nearly every meal out, I spent about 2000 rmb a month. However, that wasn't Shanghai and I rarely went to the local idea of an expensive bar for 20 rmb Corona when I could have 4 rmb beer in local restaurants. Nor did I often go to expensive Western restaurants; the city I was in had no good ones anyway. Finally, I had no expensive vices; I wasn't spending silly amounts on "fast women and slow horses".

From that perspective, something like 10,000 is a comfortable living wage for a Shanghai expat. I rent a reasonably nice apartment for 2000, but I'm way out in the suburbs. That price would roughly double to live downtown and at least double again for a luxury place.

One earlier poster said his rent was over 30000. This strikes me as insane. I'm sure I could get a really nice well-located place for half that.

However, that's the other perspective here. If you are working for an international company and they send you here, then you expect at least the salary you got at home and you expect the company to make an effort to make you comfortable here, provide most of the amenities you'd have at home. That is quite reasonable, but it leads to an entirely different perspective than the teacher/traveller's.

Even a low-level engineering or management job in the West is going to pay at least $60,000 a year. Even 60K is $5K a month, 30-odd thousand rmb. Many people sent here are in senior roles, making quite a bit more than that.

In Chinese terms, or English teacher terms, those people are living in the stratosphere.

I first earned 4500 rmb a month when I came to China living out in a small town. I had a blast and only worked 12 hours a week teaching. I now have a professional job in Shanghai and make a good salary. I dont look down on people because of the job they have. I have worked in whatever job I could get to keep me travelling and exploring. I have earned as little as 4500 rmb a month and as much as 12000 U.S. a month in my life. I don't really see much difference between people based on their salaries. It is better to see life from many angles and experiences as far as I am concerned. The people who live sometimes in the most fear are people that have money and are scared to step out of that safety bubble.

I remember my times of being almost homeless and broke while travelling as some of my best times.
This year I have a good job and enjoy nice stuff and who knows what life with bring next, but I don't try to hide inside a bubble of cash safety.

I came here as a junior staff, they wanted to start a call centre here. I came over to help set it up (operational)
i came here not really for money but for experience plus i have many relatives that are from Shanghai, my dad migrated to Singapore during his 30's

Coming here does help me learn lots of stuff, my company recently increase 500rmb for me so i'm getting 10,000 rmb a month

my rent is 2,800 at Huangpu district (oppo Shanghai TV Station) but i'm living and eating like the locals here which i don't mind

after deducting misc fee and their gov tax, i'm really having 6,000rmb a month

Toonster, don't feel bad, that's 6000 more than my income.......lol

ya, i hope no one feels bad... we're all in this situation for different reasons.

i like pash's post - nail>hamer=head.

maxfusion16 wrote:Toonster, don't feel bad, that's 6000 more than my income.......lol

Haha... i don't fee bad honestly, besides i don't spend alot and as you know having a chinese wife. We give a large portion to wife, besides i eat like a local and shop when there's sale, also renting out my unit in Singapore, i'm financially stable

I know this is an old thread, but it got me thinking about the difference between the city average wage and what us laowais earn.

The bare minimum I'd say a laowai works for in Shanghai is 10k a month, that being an English teacher with no experience qualifications etc, experienced English teachers can get more like 20k, and many more laowais have 30k, 40k, and even far above this.

The city average wage is about 5k a month, so foreigners are on at least double this, and usually many many multiples of this. Plus pay less tax.
Some unskilled Chinese only earn 1000-1500 a month.

Really the average wage in Shanghai is very low, even allowing for the cheaper cost of living.

Imagine going to another major financial centre like New York, London, Tokyo, Hong Kong etc. and without any qualifications demanding at least double the city average salary, with some experience demanding at least 5 , 10 or 20 times the city average!