When / Will it ever change ?

by **NCD22** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:40 am

So, you think that after 5 years of living here I would have learned my lesson, but in just the last two weeks I have gotten bent over the metaphorical barrel and spanked in near legendary fashion. Guess if you let your guard down for a second, WHAM! it'll hit you that people here don't play by any rules...

First was when I went to the diet clinic with my wife (Sau San Tong in Central Plaza) with the intention of buying her a diet program (ya get fat in China! must be all the oil), one where they bring you food throughout the week along with supplements and herbs. All was going well until AFTER (of course) we had paid the initial deposit, gone in for TWO checkups and finally were about to start when we find out that the program that we had signed up for was not what they were giving us. Instead they wanted to only give her small packets of rotten tasting Chinese medicine and "coaching" on how to eat (at the same astronomical price!). To make a long story short, they lied, cheated, stole and in the end refused to change the plan or refund the money (these services ain't cheap). They played the classic card "you are foreigners, your chinese isn't good and you misunderstood..." Both my wife and I studied Chinese and use it daily in our personal lives and for business...It is far from perfect, but I know damn well what is going on in any conversation. So, I could call lawyers and take it to the Shanghai consumers watchgroup, but what would that do? I mean, even giants like Starbucks spend millions to sue and in the end are rewarded with laughable sums, so what chance does a lone foreigner have? The sad thing (for them) is that I was going to do the same program so they not only lost the remainder of the payment because of their shenanigans, they lost another huge payment to boot!

Second time - about 2 months ago I bought a diamond anniversary ring for my wife at Hiersun Diamonds in CITIC square (Big store, nice people, or so we thought). A very contemporary minimalist design that is beautiful. Suffice to say, about a month into it the diamond fitting became loose and we took it in for repairs thinking it was a one time thing. But last week it came loose again and when we went in this time the attendants calmly, and without the least bit of shame or "verguenza", said that this particular ring was not meant to be worn and that it would constantly be coming loose. The flaw in design was not their concern (somehow their shoddy craftsmanship is MY fault!) and their suggestion was that I purchase another ring for my wife. They did not do the upstanding thing and offer to replace it or fix it, their lame ass pathetic excuse for a solution is that I fork over more hard earned money and buy another of their most likely defective products. Very helpful I must say, what kind of ring is not meant to be worn?

So my question is (I guess it is a lot of questions, but around the same topic) - When are the Chinese going to stop robbing, cheating and stealing everything that they can get their hands on? When are they going to learn that screwing people for all they can is just inherently wrong? And lastly, when are they going to learn basic ethics (how hard can it be?)????

I usually dont rant, but this is ridiculous...

Cheers you rotten bastards! Ya finally got the best of me...

by **Magnolia** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:09 am

NCD22 wrote:But last week it came loose again and when we went in this time the attendants calmly, and without the least bit of shame or "verguenza", said that this particular ring was not meant to be worn and that it would constantly be coming loose.

Don't you love it when people come up with crap excuses like that?

by **horsemandk** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:21 am

This is China, money is power :-)

As soon as you pay they don't care about you anymore, that's why we only buy in foreign shops, if they give us the "cold shoulder" we just mail our complaint overseas.

So far we have won cases against: IKEA, Samsung, Vifa and Suning :-)

by **benleesk88** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:30 am

NCD22, I empathised with your situation and believe that anyone would be fuming mad if such unfortunate incidents happen to them. It might be even better if you can provide the address of the jewllery shop so that we can stay clear from it when buying gifts for our love ones.

However, I think it is also unfair to label all Chinese as cheats and robbers over the actions of some minority groups. Regardless of where you are from, i am sure that there would also be black sheeps amongest you.

by **Magnolia** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:35 am

while i agree that there are black sheep among every culture, group, etc... at least the excuses are often more plausible and less of a fcuk you.

by **YariGuy** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:45 am

This is terrible. Hiersun must be bleeding money from the store too. They spend all their money on the armies of purple-clad male attendants.

by **TheDudeAbides** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:10 am

I had a similar experience recently. A friend and I went to this hairdressing chain called Yongqi (or smth like that, they wear purple uniforms) for a massage, they did a really good job, and the price was quite good too, so they talked us into buying a frequent user card, 2000rmb worth of services but greatly discounted.

We've since been back twice, but now they seem to be making up the cost as they please, as they know they already have our money, and no amount of arguing has helped. Next time I think I'm just gonna go ape s*** if they try to rip me off again, at least cause a bit of a scene in front of their other customers!

by **angelia** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:40 am

Hi all,

I want to tell you some stories happened in my life to share.I'm a Chinese.

(1)When I worked in Xi'an,Shanggxi Province,I had more chances to visit the famous place in Xi'an that had the ancient civilization of Qin Dynasty.But for me,as a trainee,I bought an annual visiting ticket only 68 RMB.I can visit in 22 travel sites in Xi'an.

In Xi'an,the economy is very poor.This city is famous for its own cultur,the city of university and the military industry as I know.Certainly,it's the top city in northwest region.

Tour industry is very popular.Some advertising tours are related to the foreigners.There are full of the liars,the cheats.It's true.I have a friend who worked in the city wall in Xi'an.She sell the jade.Only one day,she can sell about 20,000 RMB for her western tourist.

In fact,The jade for a chinese is worth only 50 RMB,But for a foreigner,it costs more than 500 RMB at least.

My friend told me that if you didn't give the foreigners the high price,They thought it's the fake.In truth,nothing is the rare treasure in China.All is the fake and the man-made one.

In the Shangxi Historical Museum,the important treasure is put in the underground coffer,not in the above 3 exhibitions.Maybe when President Clinton and Jacques CHIRAC had the chance to visit,that must be real.It's the VIP symbol.

(2)It's funny.I got the tickets only 68RMB,I can go to the bell tower 25 RMB-the drum Tower 25 RMB-The Temple(Da Ci En Si)25 RMB-The great goose pagoda20 RMB-Shangxi Historical Museum35 RMB-the little goose pagoda20 RMB-Mount Li15RMB-Fa Men shi Museum25RMB and so on.

I paid for 68RMB.and I enjoyed a lot.Maybe you must pay at least 200 RMB and you will be taken by the tourist guide to the shopping spot to buy the jade,the Terra-cotta Warriors and Horses.

The rich can play their game,but it's not a real.Only the Vanity Fair.

(3)In China,I had the ticket.In the travel sites,I think it's the public places for people to enlighten themselves from the past to the future,like the British Museum.Here is totally different.

Some tour spot was only for the foreigners,even I got the ticket.It's tested by my skin-yellow.Especially,most of Chinese are driven by money.

(4)In Shanghai,I know the money's power.All is towards the direction of money,nothing else.I know i don't belong here.Somewhere i Belong.Who knows???

by **Magnolia** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:50 am

angelia... you have been very upfront.

even as a local chinese, you shouldn't ever feel as though you don't belong somewhere (here). shanghai may be more money-oriented than other places, but it isn't all the people. there are loads of great people in shanghai. sometimes you just have to dig through the riff-raff, like you would have to do anywhere.

not quite sure what you mean about the difference in why one goes to museums or historical sites in comparison to the british museum.

by **BONNIE** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:14 pm

I think she means that she feels National Museums, Historical spots, etc should be free entry - they belong to the people - surely. In London, pretty much all the Museums are free entry.

by **Magnolia** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:32 pm

ahhh... you must be correct, bonnie... i was unable to make sense of it.

by **mat** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:41 pm

I once had a heating repair man tell me, with a straight face, that the heating wasn't working properly because it is too cold. Once the weather warmed up, the heating should be fine he reckoned.

by **Magnolia** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:53 pm

kind of reminds me of the time a friend had her hair cut and she asked for a straight line. two days later, her hair was still noticebly asymetrical. when she returned to the hairdresser to ask him to fix it, he informed her that the haircut was straight, but her head was lopsided.

by **turtle** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:36 pm

mat wrote:I once had a heating repair man tell me, with a straight face, that the heating wasn't working properly because it is too cold. Once the weather warmed up, the heating should be fine he reckoned.

I've had that from the repair man at my complex as well. The same guy came round a couple weeks later to fix my water heater as the water coming out of my tap was luke warm and he said "the water is hot, it's just cold outside and that's why you don't think it's hot".

by **Edgewood** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:59 pm

When are the Chinese going to stop robbing, cheating and stealing everything that they can get their hands on?

About 35 minutes after we hit the Big Red Button.

by **jklin78** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:04 pm

I went to visit a dentist in Shanghai and found out he is the same guy who came to my apartment to fix my plumbing problem in the kitchen. ------------------------ relax, just kidding !

by **Lotta** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:10 pm

kind of reminds me of the time a friend had her hair cut and she asked for a straight line. two days later, her hair was still noticebly asymetrical. when she returned to the hairdresser to ask him to fix it, he informed her that the haircut was straight, but her head was lopsided.

Well, my friend had a problem with the shower that the water would come hot one minute and icy cold the next . The repair man told her, "get under the water when it comes hot and come out when it comes cold "

by **yu888** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:13 pm

mat wrote:I once had a heating repair man tell me, with a straight face, that the heating wasn't working properly because it is too cold. Once the weather warmed up, the heating should be fine he reckoned.

sounds like my water heater. Seems to work best in Summer .

by **dezak** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:29 pm

Lotta wrote:
kind of reminds me of the time a friend had her hair cut and she asked for a straight line. two days later, her hair was still noticebly asymetrical. when she returned to the hairdresser to ask him to fix it, he informed her that the haircut was straight, but her head was lopsided.

Well, my friend had a problem with the shower that the water would come hot one minute and icy cold the next . The repair man told her, "get under the water when it comes hot and come out when it comes cold "

i friggin hate that. hopefully my new places aren't like that

by **jklin78** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:01 pm

Speaking of heaters, I have a dumb question. In the US, the hearter comes with a big tank where the hot water is stored so that when you take a shower, I presume the hot water comes from that container while the cold water gets heated at the same time. Why in China, I only see the gas heater but there is no container next to it? Where does the hot water get stored?

by **Andreas** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:13 pm

jklin78 wrote:Speaking of heaters, I have a dumb question. In the US, the hearter comes with a big tank where the hot water is stored so that when you take a shower, I presume the hot water comes from that container while the cold water gets heated at the same time. Why in China, I only see the gas heater but there is no container next to it? Where does the hot water get stored?

The gas heaters are 'through flow' heaters, and I have never seen them with a storage tank. There are electrical heaters that have a storage tank, but I have mostly seen them in North China.

There are tap water heaters (gas fired) that are integrated with floor, or central heating. These usually do have a storage tank.

by **jklin78** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:21 pm

Will this (having no storage tank) explain why the shower water goes hot and cold because the gas heater can not heat the water quick enough for the consumption?

by **Andreas** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:29 pm

If they are properly adjusted, the temperature should not fluctuate too much. The burner is a so called modulating burner, which is supposed to adapt itself to the flow. More water flow, more gas. The problem is that most heaters I have seen here were not adjusted properly, so at higher flow rate the gas burner can not keep up.

by **mat** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:38 pm

What i find is that it is actually hotter if you don't put the tap/mixer on full. About 3/4 towards hot, and about 3/4 pressure as well is best. The Hot water heats up hoter.

by **jklin78** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:38 pm

what's the advantage of having a storage tank?

by **mat** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:41 pm

In Australia, 90% of hotwater comes from a storage tank. The water is hot ALL THE TIME. The disadvantage is that it is constantly heating up water, so gas/electric bills higher.

by **MH360** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:20 pm

Magnolia wrote:while i agree that there are black sheep among every culture, group, etc... at least the excuses are often more plausible and less of a fcuk you.

totally

by JD » Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:05 am

storage tank or boiler works as a buffer. it stores hot water ready to use (while it lasts). Here, max 50 liters, elsewhere up to 500 liters even more.

by **g-force** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:01 am

I have been living in Shanghai for more than a year now. I stumbled onto this site just now. Wondering what I have been doing all this time!

I was borned in Xian, and I immigrated to the US when I was in my early teens. When I first came back, I too was shocked by everything around me. But now I am used to it. I just follow a couple of rules: Never buy anything more than 1,000 yuan here; never see a doctor here. Besides that, as long as my safety is not in danger, I just take it easy. It is amazing once I changed my frame of mind.

Anyway, I am new to this site. I am looking forward in meeting some of you in the upcoming activities.

by **litttleworm** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:50 am

At the school I worked at the air conditioning was not working in the computer lab so the teacher turned it off, opened the windows, and called the schools's maintenance guys. When they arrived, they told the teacher that he had to turn it on. He told them that he turned it off because it wasn't working. They looked confused. Then they told him that it wasn't working because he had the windows open. So he told them that he opened the windows because the ac wasn't working. They were still confused. They argued with him for ten minutes about shutting the windows and making sure the ac was on. It was ridiculous.

When / Will it ever change ?

When / Will it ever change ?

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