Best humans potential, economical perspectives, climate ?

What is your BEST choice (if any) if money is no matter(ability for getting grants,etc) ?

1.
2.
3.

THANK YOU !

1. The UK
2. Canada
3. somewhere in Europe so that they can learn multiple languages and travel extensively

comparing the BEST schools in any country?

Well, i'd have to say, based on worlds best universities
http://www.usnews.com/articles/educatio ... p-400.html
1. USA
2. UK
3. Australia (distant third)

Left the US specifically with our daughter's education in mind.
Primary and middle school education in Singapore followed by high school (a "private school") in Shanghai prepared her well and with a useful second language to boot.

The question should not be what is the best country but what is the best school that matches both the adult's and the child's desires and abilities to what the child may want to do in the future. Too often the parents do no take into consideration the child's interests, desires and abilities and send their child to a school with a great reputation that the child hates and the child does poorly there and resents their parents for it for the rest of their lives.

Terminology can be confusing.

When Americans say SCHOOL, they may be talking about a college or a university! In other countries, "school" refers ONLY to primary, middle or high school (K-12 education).

When americans talk about a "college", they may be referring to a university!

When Australians say "My kid is in Year 8", they mean that their kid is in the 8th grade!

Okay, enough of terminology. Coming to quality: British and Australian universities are perhaps the worst in the world - definitely the worst in the developed world - they are the laziest and study the least.

The input (freshmen) are perhaps the same quality at Oxford and Harvard; however, the output (graduates) are much better at Harvard.

beenaroundworld wrote:When americans talk about a "college", they may be referring to a university!

Yes, in lazy speech Americans may refer to going to a university as a "going to college," even when they know the distinction.

Americans and British education (schooling) systems are falling behind.
America in particular, is way down in the most recent PISA, compared to other developed countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_ ... Assessment

American kids are tested to total boredom with education in schools, trying to prove that no child has been left behind.

The Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) is a worldwide evaluation of 15-year-old school children's scholastic performance, performed first in 2000 and repeated every three years. It is coordinated by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), with a view to improving educational policies and outcomes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_ ... ite_note-4

An evaluation of the 2003 results showed that the countries which spent more on education did not necessarily do better than those which spent less. Australia, Belgium, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Japan, Korea, New Zealand and the Netherlands spent less but did relatively well, whereas the United States spent much more but was below the OECD average. The Czech Republic, in the top ten, spent only one third as much per student as the United States did, for example, but the USA came 24th out of 29 countries compared.

prEttyNDistress wrote:Singapore and Hong Kong


your kids will learn English, Mandarin and Cantonese.

i expected someone to retort, "but none of them well" (except maybe cantonese in hk). it seems only other singaporeans can understand singaporean english without trouble. and chinese mainlanders say the mandarin of HKers is atrocious.

maneo wrote:

beenaroundworld wrote:When americans talk about a "college", they may be referring to a university!

Yes, in lazy speech Americans may refer to going to a university as a "going to college," even when they know the distinction.

in the US, there's not as much distinction. while i'm sure most people know the difference, it's a "don't care" because it's rather negligible to the intended message.

it's actually more of a linguistic habit than laziness when americans say "going to college". in the US, it's interchangeable with "going to university". but "going to university" just sounds weird to americans unless you're saying a name like "going to johns hopkins university".

anter wrote:Americans and British education (schooling) systems are falling behind.
America in particular, is way down in the most recent PISA, compared to other developed countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_ ... Assessment

yes, we've seen articles for a long time now saying how far US middle/high school education has fallen behind other countries in science and math. yet somehow, they tend to catch up in college...oops, university.

in asia, high school is tough due to the college entrance process. but once you get past that, i hear they can (and many do) coast through college. in the US, it seems it's often the other way around. i have seen many of my high school classmates who were slackers or very average students, get advanced degrees in scientific or professional fields. i have seen incoming stoners, jocks, and border-line alcoholics in my college freshman class going on to get TA positions for 2nd or 3rd year courses and majoring in areas like applied physics.

ayall wrote:comparing the BEST schools in any country?

Well, i'd have to say, based on worlds best universities
http://www.usnews.com/articles/educatio ... p-400.html
1. USA
2. UK
3. Australia (distant third)

well I can tell you you cannot judge like that. I worked/study or my close friends teach on few of those top 50 Unis and i can tell you. Find what you want to study, have a look who will teach you and then you can find out that for some subjects of interest the small unknow universities all around the world are much better then the well known big giants like UNSW or Harward.


By the way
by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_ ... Assessment

"Topical studies

An evaluation of the 2003 results showed that the countries which spent more on education did not necessarily do better than those which spent less. Australia, Belgium, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Japan, Korea, New Zealand and the Netherlands spent less but did relatively well, whereas the United States spent much more but was below the OECD average. The Czech Republic, in the top ten, spent only one third as much per student as the United States did, for example, but the USA came 24th out of 29 countries compared."


I am so lucky that I am from where I am. i had a plenty of time to do a sport and I still learned a lot
currently ranked a 10th.

Having taught science at univs in a few different countries, I can say this:
Some university rankings are based on research output, which does NOT translate into teaching quality. Many profs spend too much time on research and invest too little time on teaching. Some univs such as Rice (Houston) hold professors accountable (regardless of how good a researcher you are, you must teach well) -- whereas in other univs, most of the undergrad teaching is done by PhD students and temporary adjunct lecturers! (while permanent profs enjoy doing research in their labs, no teaching, he he he!)

And even if the permanent profs teach, it still may not work out well if the courses and the degree programs are structured in a shoddy way.

Then student attitudes are a big factor. In some univs/countries, they are eager to learn -- whereas in others, they want to have a party time and get a piece of paper after 3-4 years. You want your kid to be in the right environment, good balance between study and other stuff.

The difference between quality of profs and quality of graduates can vary a lot. Top profs and top quality graduates, good professors and mediocre graduates, anything is possible.

So do not go by newspaper/magazine rankings alone.

bleepingbleeper wrote:i expected someone to retort, "but none of them well" (except maybe cantonese in hk). it seems only other singaporeans can understand singaporean english without trouble. and chinese mainlanders say the mandarin of HKers is atrocious.

I am Singaporean, but everyone (UK, Aussies, US, etc) who conversed with me could understand me without any problem. The exception would be "English teachers" teaching at local schools. After some very trying minutes of attempting to converse in English, I simply tell them I speak Mandarin. One could hear the sigh of relief at the other end.

1. Norway (cold)
2. Belgium (not a country)
3. UK (rainy)
4. Germany (Germans)
5. The Netherlands (if you like young cheese)

Kid's education does not start in university, that's where it ends, these countries have the best educational systems at age 3 to 18!!! (at least according to Forbes)

I have a family in Luxembourg.
They are telling me all the time how good education system they have and hard hard it is and how smart the kids will be. In that country you do not have many choices you must study study study or play some instrument. there is no sport education at all. I feel sorry for those kids. They spend at school more time then here. What for is the childhood is for? and after that? work work work? I am not surprised that they have so many problems with the alcohol there. I will prefer Norway (you can go to school by ski) I like it.

my kid will be a mix-breed so i dont know if the usa or china would be best.

Assuming that the point of getting a good education is to 'succeed' in life, whatever that means. I'm of the opinion that this comes from good parenting more than good schools. Not to play down the importance of school (and by school I mean school, not University), which has a part to play, but the biggest difference in my view is how well the parents equip the kids with the emotional, mental and moral tools to have a good life.

I would say that I want my kids growing up fluent in at least two languages, though.

leidelaohu wrote:

anter wrote:American kids are tested to total boredom with education in schools, trying to prove that no child has been left behind.

You know that all this standardized testing education evaluation stuff is nonsense, right ? If children are motivated they will learn. If not, then they won't. The rest of this is mostly hogwash.

It's the American system that is doing the most testing and holding teachers accountable for the results of all the standardised tests. In the US testing has become the aim of education, resulting in teaching to the tests. The PISA rankings should reflect how great this No Child Left Behind strategy is working which is not the case in the US results.
It would help their scores to be taught this PISA test as well.

What has happened in many US states is that motivation is crushed by the banal nature of the tuition and content focus, not on learning and skills but on passing tests. This US system is defeating the natural desire to discover and learn by making false claims within it's own testing system that is not backed up by global results.

I'm using the PISA results to demonstrate how conterproductive the approach in US schools is.

The top scoring country on the PISA tests is Finland where they start formal education later (at age 7) and the nature of the school day is very different.

In US and UK there is more and more pressure from parents to start reading and literacy at a younger age. This is a waste of quality learning and discovery time, that could be spent developing a better range of basic skills and to build on these. This is where the ability to problem solve and to do higher order thinking, later, is born. Earlier and earlier push for literacy (which is not developmentally appropriate for most young children) is a crime against learning. Speaking well and level of understanding is not equal.
I keep meeting managers who talk the talk and thus get the top job but cannot walk the walk cause they have no skill sets other than bla bla bla.

anter wrote:It's the American system that is doing the most testing and holding teachers accountable for the results of all the standardised tests. In the US testing has become the aim of education, resulting in teaching to the tests.

Wow, and I thought it is the Singaporean educational system (or any Asian one, coming to think of it) that teaches to the tests. And I must say we are pretty good at it, producing lots of college kids for whom anything less than an A is a bad grade, when they go to US universities.

findus wrote:Assuming that the point of getting a good education is to 'succeed' in life, whatever that means. I'm of the opinion that this comes from good parenting more than good schools. Not to play down the importance of school (and by school I mean school, not University), which has a part to play, but the biggest difference in my view is how well the parents equip the kids with the emotional, mental and moral tools to have a good life.

I would say that I want my kids growing up fluent in at least two languages, though.

Agree. in most of the points. I just may ad that it is also parents responsibility to find the best school/lecturer for their kids.

wo chi shi wrote:my kid will be a mix-breed so i dont know if the usa or china would be best.

Well, I'd say unless you don't mind your kid brain washed by communists every single day while rote learning obsolete and outdated crap, then by all means, send him to US.

BTW, you might consider a change of your user name, seriously..

leidelaohu wrote:^^ You're preaching to the choir, Ants

I believe the problem with education in the US is two-part. First is the fact that stupid people (52% of the population) want thar kids to be edamacated but they really don't want them to be able to think. Any child who could think would toss those Moms and Dads in the dumpster by the fourth grade. Hence, lots of testing and Creation Theory.

The other problem is even harder to overcome. US education is fine. But why should children bother when there is no future ? You can't fool adolescents. They can see clearly that there's no point in working hard so that Mark Hurd can shitcan them later in favor of a horde of half-price H1-B visa holders. Unless you want to be a slimy financier thief, there's no future in the US.

So why study ?

anter wrote:I keep meeting managers who talk the talk and thus get the top job but cannot walk the walk cause they have no skill sets other than bla bla bla.

"Our employees are our most important asset !" Pardon me while I puke ...

The scary problem I see now is the people at the top don't have a clue. Sure, they can play games with spreadsheets but they know less than nothing about their own business. Example One : John Akers. He was the exception then. He's the rule now.

How the hell are we gonna get out of this one, Ollie ?

I left my last job because the manager was totally impractical. Flexing his management authority, trying to learn how to be practical was a mess. He could talk up a treat to impress outside the organisation but could not project the consequences of his stupid choices into the futures or those who would have to live with them.

Back to the OP. If the parents actually give their children lots of learning opportunities instead of lots of carbs, fat and techno gadgets. If school is a nice place to be with friends and fun things other than the testing. If there is care and consideration show to people it will be OK if you child is bright.
If your child is not so bright and needs extra help and tuition I'd think about home schooling but with other children so there are social interactions.
To be told day in day out that you are not doing well and failing or just passing the tests is very soul destroying.

I think it is probably better that a child develops a business and you put the money a college would cost into starting a business. Truly where do you go in a profession but to some organisation that is a different version of school.
School was invented to serve industry not children. It provided child minding while parents worked and it produced a level of literacy and numeracy that was useful to industry. Yuck!

nonghagang wrote:

wo chi shi wrote:my kid will be a mix-breed so i dont know if the usa or china would be best.

Well, I'd say unless you don't mind your kid brain washed by communists every single day while rote learning obsolete and outdated crap, then by all means, send him to US.

nonghagang wrote:BTW, you might consider a change of your user name, seriously..

What about your user name, eh, 农蛤疘 ?

^The relationship with parents and the location in which you live is more important. Most education systems were designed to produce compliant, (basically) literate/numerate humand that direction and can be chaneled into some industry or other. There is small opportunities one way or another to diverge from this path. Much state based education is providing child minding so parents can go and work the 8 to 7 shift at peace knowing their kids will be entitled to the same opportunities society has afforded them.

brokenfishing wrote:Best humans potential, economical perspectives, climate ?

What is your BEST choice (if any) if money is no matter(ability for getting grants,etc) ?

THANK YOU !

Not in particular order: Canada, Singapore, Switzerland.

StMichael wrote:

anter wrote:It's the American system that is doing the most testing and holding teachers accountable for the results of all the standardised tests. In the US testing has become the aim of education, resulting in teaching to the tests.

Wow, and I thought it is the Singaporean educational system (or any Asian one, coming to think of it) that teaches to the tests. And I must say we are pretty good at it, producing lots of college kids for whom anything less than an A is a bad grade, when they go to US universities.

When the education is leaded by the results, we cannot avoide the process of repeating practices.
For the good education system, everybody has the answer depends on what they want to get from the education. I think the best education system is built up by the parents.
School life is just part of their childhood, but they grow up in the family.
Never totally rely on schools or teachers.
Good grade is not all for the education.
The way to learn something independently is the key point.
To build up their own learning system.

leidelaohu wrote:Maybe the first step is parents who understand that people have children, goats have kids ....

Goatlings are happy with their parents.
The parents are always the responsible people for the education.
Education is just the tool like the language.

I'm from Switzerland and would like to think our education system is pretty good, but it requires French/German/Italian fluency to enter school, which is difficult for foreign kids (hence the low reading/literacy score in PISA, more than 22% foreigners in CH) and could impact other skills, as language fluency is the key to effective interaction in every situation, be it social or in school.
So unless the parents are relocating to CH with their kid at an early age and are themselves willing to make a big effort to learn the language(s) I wouldn't recommend Switzerland, as the international schools are pretty comparable internationally I think.. (North Korean dictators wouldn't agree with me here)
I would stay clear of most Asian education systems though, rote learning and amassing knowledge is absolutely useless in todays society, what is true today is wrong tomorrow, all you need to have is a good grasp of the basic mechanisms and interrelations of science and knowledge, and know where to find knowledge you don't have. Being a quick learner is by far superiour to having learnt much, especially if it came with a huge effort. Social skills, languages, intuitive logical thinking is where future generations can distinguish themselves from others, not rote memorisation.

^^Well said. Especially this...

Social skills, languages, intuitive logical thinking is where future generations can distinguish themselves from others, not rote memorisation.

pfft wrote:I would stay clear of most Asian education systems though

That's an over-generalization, just like saying all western systems are the same. They are not. Alabama is NOT the same as Massachusetts, Missisippi is NOT the same as California.

Looking down on Asia as a whole? No, that's wrong. Very wrong.

pfft wrote:rote learning and amassing knowledge is absolutely useless in todays society, what is true today is wrong tomorrow, all you need to have is a good grasp of the basic mechanisms and interrelations of science and knowledge, and know where to find knowledge you don't have. Being a quick learner is by far superiour to having learnt much, especially if it came with a huge effort. Social skills, languages, intuitive logical thinking is where future generations can distinguish themselves from others, not rote memorisation.

Yes, heard this many times before - logical thinking is more important than rote memorisation - and I agree.

But the fact is, SOME memorisation is necessary. In some countries, they went completely into logical stuff. With the result, a college student spent a long long long time using his so-called "logical thinking" to get answers to very simple arithmetic, and so he had NO time to learn the advanced stuff You have to have something stored in your hard drive for quick retrieval, so that your C.P.U. can work/learn on more advanced stuff.