Kate&Kimi

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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:38 pm

XiaoyuShanghai wrote:Shocked! Cloverdale chicken has suddenly disappeared from KK website?!

Still there when I looked just now.
http://www.kateandkimi.com/meat-fish/poultry.html
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:59 pm

Ah, now they've put a message up...

August 25h - FRESH CLOVERDALE is temporarily disabled, and will shortly be replaced with a frozen option. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I hope that means they are investigating rather than that they were in on some sort of dodgy dealing.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby mod4 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:02 am

bigroh74 wrote:
mod4 wrote:Oh yeah, at least one person here has also posted from the same address as a rival to Kate&Kimi!

As I suspected...


Make that two!
http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/article/eight-reasons-write-us-26965.html
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby freddiesdead » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:42 am

bigroh74 wrote:You obviously don't know the history, and I won't bore you with it.

I could care less about Kate and Kimi (although their story sounds kinda shaky too.) But the "Blue Coral" salmon thing is insulting. Every word on their fraudulent website is repulsive.

The "factory fishing" salmon people on the west coast are the most responsible, most concerned group of people involved. They are the ones fighting Big Ag in the valley for water. They are the ones fighting clear-cutting Weyerhauser. They are the ones taking down salmon-killing dams. They are the ones putting up with no season at all because there aren't enough fish (due to the algore hoax, not overfishing.) This crap from a bunch of fraudsters with no address, photos they pulled off google, a retouched (or computer-generated) picture of their 'facilities' and a bowl of self-congratulating pseudo-environmentalist spew for text, these are some disgusting people.

To top it off, anyone who would put the word "coral" in a sentence with "salmon" is a certified drooling idiot. If Kate & Kimi have anything to do with these assholes, well .... birds of a feather.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby JiangFam » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:41 am

The Blue Coral website looks like it was put up by some amateurs who knows nothing about salmon, sustainable fishing practice or web design for that matter. I have never been a customer of K&K but have shopped in other online grocery such as FreshFresh and CityShop. I always have serious doubt about some of the claims these online shops make. I guess I will go back to my wet markets.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby yodelaheehoo » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:52 am

This has all the hallmarks of honest, trusting employers trying to do the right for their customers and being duped by a corrupt employee taking advantage of their trust.

Given the scale of K&K and how they know reputation is everything I imagine that an employee presented the Salmon and Chicken company and it nailed the managements brief for quality produce with a back story. But clearly it's too good to be true and whoever proposed it could allegedly be getting a pretty kick back from a local supplier.

Corruption is sadly rife - I know of one business whose HR Director had set up their own recruitment company on the side, then finding new hires through LinkedIn or word of mouth and then hiring the employee through their company to take the commission.

Whilst I don't know the facts with this K&K thing - I just can't imagine the management would be so stupid to risk their business by selling BS stories.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby freddiesdead » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:11 pm

yodelaheehoo wrote: I just can't imagine the management would be so stupid ...

Been in China long, have you ?
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby shanghaiexpateditor » Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:40 pm

Everything you need to know about the Kate and Kimi scandal http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/blog/shang ... 39827.html
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby Longjob » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:44 pm

Its easy to see where Shexpats loyalties lie. K&K are an advertiser, positive spin on excuse laden explanation and threads removed. We must be in China
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby SHfoodINSIDER » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:27 am

I felt like this would be perfect time to chime in. I created this account to be anonymous because I am in the F&B business in Shanghai and have had interaction with K&K and I know people in the business who have sold through and done business with them.

Richie, owner of Gusto fine foods and Kate & Kimi, has worked very hard to build K&K and has been very successful. After meeting him the first time, he told me the same story with how "Kate & Kimi" begged him to start this business. Whether it's true or not (I doubt it is), it is my opinion that he tells this story in attempt to build his credibility and generate an aura of exclusivity.

He is a very reliable supplier and does deliver high quality goods, but his wholesale prices are certainly not very "wholesale-ish". They're much closer to retail pricing and I am certain he makes a very healthy margin off of his niche he has created. What I am concerned is that perhaps this profitability has been built partially off of falsehoods and misrepresentations.

Recently (in the past year or so) K&K required all cottage industry producers to obtain QS license for products sold through their website due to increasing government oversight. This makes sense. A few vendors with whom I spoke with who had previously sold non-QS products through their website were extended the offer to make their products in their QS certified kitchen however under very unfavorable terms. It left a bad taste in the mouth of some of these people and a number of the small cottage brands left the website.

There have been other people, specifically an expat organization which I wish not to name, which refuses to work with him after a number of very difficult experiences working with him.

I am sad to say that these allegations are not an entire surprise to me. I am not here to defend or try to drag his name through the mud, but I think that if a brand has been built off of misrepresentations, then we all deserve to know and that organization should be held accountable. This may be able to provide an additional perspective into the situation.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby paulspb » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:36 am

Recall me adventure of salmon in german supermarket "Metro". Long long time ago it was claimed as origin from Norway. When China banned salmon from Norway, all salmon migrated to Peru (or Vietnam ?) :lol: and now it selling in "Metro" as salmon from new promising land (sorry, the sea), but price was doubled. 8) And you talking about an KateScammy :wink: FYI: https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2013/0 ... h-vietnam/

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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby skyline5k » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:19 am

SHfoodINSIDER wrote:I am sad to say that these allegations are not an entire surprise to me. I am not here to defend or try to drag his name through the mud, but I think that if a brand has been built off of misrepresentations, then we all deserve to know and that organization should be held accountable. This may be able to provide an additional perspective into the situation.

I have a colleague who had an "interesting" interaction with Richie the China Farmer. After being labeled racist, he was also informed that Richie had his address due to his former purchases on Kate & Kimi.

Sounds like a right friendly guy.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby freddiesdead » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:21 am

SHfoodINSIDER wrote: it is my opinion that he tells this story in attempt to build his credibility and generate an aura of exclusivity.

Oh no, it's true, it's true ! I know them .... Kate

kate.jpg
kate.jpg (42.53 KiB) Viewed 2364 times

and Kimi ...

kimi.jpg
kimi.jpg (30.21 KiB) Viewed 2364 times

He is a very reliable supplier

Unfortunately, when someone lies upfront, it's kinda hard to have much faith in anything they say later on ... :(

perhaps this profitability has been built partially off of falsehoods and misrepresentations.

Does a bear sh1t in the woods ?

I think that if a brand has been built off of misrepresentations,

It's the Shanghai trend. I used to despise Shanghai because it was the most dishonest place in China ... okay, Shandong is a worthy competitor. But at least Shandong food is okay.

About 2000 it started to get better. Much better. In fact, Shanghai became a pretty decent city for a while.

Then Expo came along. Sigh. First it was chipping, now it's the same old same old. Ripoff city. Tinseltown without the tinsel. Organic salmon from a sludge pond in Shandong, the second-most dishonest place in China. Goody. (I got to be the house honky in a joint venture with the Shandong Highway Department. Left a taste like dead organic salmon.)

But it has certificates ! From Kate, wherever she may be !

paulspb wrote:When China banned salmon from Norway,

Did they really ? That's pretty funny, actually.

http://www.salmonfarmmonitor.org/intlne ... 2004.shtml

Why do I think Chinese salmon farms will be ... errr ... not much better ? Bing image search "china fish farm" and see what you think. Those places all have certificates, too.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby Longjob » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:08 pm

Anyone know where Cloverdale Poultry actually comes from? A search came up with a Cloverdale poultry farm in Florida, not in Canada.

Is this just another fake farm name that is so common in UK-based supermarkets?
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby JiangFam » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:45 pm

We consumers are so gullible. I remember back in 1990s, the Chinese stores were selling the famous American brand of jeans called "Apple Jeans" that were supposedly to be all the rage in the U.S. Has any Americans out there heard of Apple Jeans? There are so many other cases of purportedly foreign brands that turn out to be not the case.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby Moonlighting » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:04 pm

I have always had to laugh about people's view of food.

My family has been in food industries for 60 years, and it's simple, really. Most people fall for whatever the latest advertising and slogans that are dished out, and if you knew the truth about all your food and supplements, where it comes from and what happens to it before it reaches you, you would probably stop eating altogether.

The fact of the matter is, people should be happy just to have food to eat, (many do not), and if you are not growing and harvesting your own food, then you are "not in the know."

Simply put, don't fall for fancy names and advertising, just make the best selection you can and follow the basic rules of sanitation.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby Moonlighting » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:06 pm

JiangFam wrote:We consumers are so gullible. I remember back in 1990s, the Chinese stores were selling the famous American brand of jeans called "Apple Jeans" that were supposedly to be all the rage in the U.S. Has any Americans out there heard of Apple Jeans? There are so many other cases of purportedly foreign brands that turn out to be not the case.


No, but I have heard about iPhone clothing wear. The legal establishment here decided that it was not infringing on Apple to keep calling there clothing line iPhone.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby JiangFam » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:14 pm

Of course, no Americans have heard about the Apple Jeans because there is no such American brand. But if you ask any Chinese over age of 40, they probably have heard about it. Btw, this was way before Apple company was famous for making iPhone/iPad etc.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby paulspb » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:23 pm

JiangFam wrote:before Apple company was famous for making iPhone/iPad etc.


-And still many don't know what IN THE WORLD DO NOT EXIST A FACTORY CALLED "Apple factory" :lol: All making in Asia from Korean, Japanese and Chinese parts.

Cook visiting "Own Apple Factory" ... :lol:

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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby Nomnomdeguerre » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:53 pm

I'm sure all the Kate & Kimi customers have received the email from them today or seen the same message on their website regarding Blue Coral Seafood Cooperative (BCSC) and Cloverdale. To me, it reads like a lot of bull. When Cloverdale was first offered on the site, wasn't it referred to as being a Canadian product? <currently, the website claims Cloverdale to be a "Canada based, family owned 100% antibiotic-free and hormone-free poultry producer."> The email now says the brand is "Canadian experts and a large poultry farm owned by Shenghua chicken." Does this simply mean Farmer Richie (Canadian) convinced a large poultry producer to do private label chicken for K&K? And they're chalking up the BCSC drama to a "website that was unfinished". A bit disingenuous and a little too much subterfuge for a grocer.

I'm not loyal to any particular online grocer, I've purchased from k&K, Helekang, Yiguo, Epermarket, Fields, and others that are no longer in business. I also worked in F&B for a couple of years and dealt with Gusto during that time. There has been a lot of mention of a K&K competitor trying to take them down, which I can only assume is Fields, but I think Richie struck first with a defamatory email he sent to all his wholesale Gusto clients about Fields which brought on a ceast & desist lawsuit. I thought it was rather immature of Richie (just like his email rant about a certain Kempinski purchaser that he described as a b*tch, sorry ass, c*nt for whom he had "sinister plans for". i was so shocked and entertained by this missive that I saved it for posterity.) It's a bit disingenuous to claim that all farms except ones that supply him are not doing things legitimately. In China, assume they're ALL doing a lot wrong. And while Richie likes to label himself a farmer (more marketing), at Gusto I have doubted his ability to discern limes from green lemons as well as his knowledge of proper storage of certain fruits and vegetables.

Perhaps Kate & Kimi do exist, but I don't believe in the capacity described for marketing purposes. In late 2012, Richie mentioned in a Gusto email "I have decided to go aggressive with an online shop...... I mean SUPER-DUPER aggressive". Though the concept at this time was more community-based and maybe meant to focus on the unlicensed cottage-industry expat food producers.

I like the selection of vegetables on offer at K&K. It's nice that they sell well-priced Top Cut beef products. I've tried a selection of the prepared foods, mostly in the early days, including the hummus, clam chowder and other things so disappointing that I'm not giving any of their savoury options another try. Richie is obviously a character, but it's the Gusto connection that made me a K&K customer. Otherwise, it's a bit sketchy as a business not to have your address listed on your website. The delivery is not cold chain and the couriers are not employees of K&K. I still order from Fields as well. The delivery hours work better for me, with the cut-off time for same day delivery being rather late. They need to sell a better selection of more affordably priced meat though. Also, I can not fault the customer service at Fields. Whenever I've complained about a particular item not being fresh, I've received a full refund. Once, K&K sent me a large piece of meat that was frozen and packaged in such a way that it was not until it was thawed and I could unfurl it that I realized it was not the cut I ordered. I complained with proof and was only given a 50% refund, though this error was in no fault mine. Was a bit annoying as I was planning to prepare it the same day it thawed for a group luncheon.

Anyway, this was longer than it was meant to me. In summary, just take everything from these types of businesses with a grain of salt. They know how to market to us, they speak our language (figuratively) and know our concerns regarding food safety and the guilt and paranoia we experience over raising our children in this environment. The best defense is to do your own research and stay informed.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby UDChE89 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:27 am

JiangFam wrote:Of course, no Americans have heard about the Apple Jeans because there is no such American brand. But if you ask any Chinese over age of 40, they probably have heard about it. Btw, this was way before Apple company was famous for making iPhone/iPad etc.


Not completely true. There was a brand of jeans sold in the US called Apple Bottom Jeans. They were geared towards African-American women.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby freddiesdead » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:52 am

UDChE89 wrote:Not completely true. There was a brand of jeans sold in the US called Apple Bottom Jeans. They were geared towards African-American women.

iphone was a registered Cisco trademark for years. Apple just went ahead and used it anyhow. So much for their respect for imaginary property.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby MadViv » Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:17 am

Anyone know if K&K is a privately held company? Does it have any investors?
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby Klick » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:39 pm

UDChE89 wrote:
JiangFam wrote:Of course, no Americans have heard about the Apple Jeans because there is no such American brand. But if you ask any Chinese over age of 40, they probably have heard about it. Btw, this was way before Apple company was famous for making iPhone/iPad etc.


Not completely true. There was a brand of jeans sold in the US called Apple Bottom Jeans. They were geared towards African-American women.


Yeah definitely, Apple Bottom Jeans were a big thing in the 90s. Definitely not geared toward the Asian body type - they were "booty" jeans, for sure - but they were pretty trendy for a while.

Re K&K, it's not exactly a secret that that Richie guy is off his nut. Who knows how much of what he comes up with is true and how much of it is a bunch of fantasist BS, but the more you ask around, the more people you will find who have had run ins with him, ranging from the somewhat unsettling to downright nasty. And, true, you will also find people who have had positive interactions with him and who have had fine service from K&K with no complaints. My amateur diagnosis, having seen plenty of examples of both, is that I suspect he's a real Dr. Jeckyll/Mr. Hyde type of character, like quite possibly actually legitimately borderline personality or some other disorder. All sunshine as long as you're going his way, but if not... heaven help you.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby Picard » Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:05 am

Image

jesting. you have not explicitly assassinated picard through the meat grinder in past posts. sorry for imposing on the uu thread and other ceaseless dialogue. few have the patience or time to read asimov before laying eyes upon beggar's chicken but toss that up to being sheltered and not connecting with those that do.

super peace busting to put those food scare fears at rest is unglamorous and an unending stool-shoveling job amidst empire builders and mad greedy sharks. doing so for the kids in this haze even after the dust settles would be characteristic of a super-mom in at least a book or two.

cutting to the chase, "servants of the lord produce fruit in abundance"
"The cheaper the crook, the gaudier the patter"
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:01 am

Picard wrote:Image

jesting. you have not explicitly assassinated picard through the meat grinder in past posts. sorry for imposing on the uu thread and other ceaseless dialogue. few have the patience or time to read asimov before laying eyes upon beggar's chicken but toss that up to being sheltered and not connecting with those that do.

super peace busting to put those food scare fears at rest is unglamorous and an unending stool-shoveling job amidst empire builders and mad greedy sharks. doing so for the kids in this haze even after the dust settles would be characteristic of a super-mom in at least a book or two.

cutting to the chase, "servants of the lord produce fruit in abundance"

Never post drunk is my advice to you.

You're welcome.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby Picard » Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:21 am

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Code: Select all
disclaimer:

reacher 'picard' reaches for ethanol to sterilize apparti in tissue culture at home in the [non-uk] kitchen. shanghai observations have given reacher lessons that these things are not for drinking unless in medicinal mushroom tincture prepared in the polish tradition. reacher may appear preachy but does so for self-integration objectives. 


"The cheaper the crook, the gaudier the patter"
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