Kate&Kimi

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Kate&Kimi

Postby hesseman » Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:23 pm

Just wanted to give a shout out to K&K customer support who sent an office staff after end of workday with some items that happened to be missing from my original order. This made us able to treat guests to a great dinner and really showed that u care. keep it up //Le
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Shanghai's Community Trusted Online Grocery Store??

Postby anonymous7890 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:18 am

Shanghai's Community-Trusted Online Grocery Store???

We've all read high profile news stories about food safety scandals in China. These reports usually involve Chinese people duping others because in their eyes profit comes before safety. As a result, this makes most of us lose confidence in our food's supply chain. So when a foreigner comes to China and builds a business founded on the principles of traceability and food safety, we automatically put our trust in them and believe they are doing the right things in the name of healthy living.

Well, this is not the case for one expat-run food business here in Shanghai. It turns out that an online grocery store in the community has been purposely misleading their customers.

Kate and Kimi's salmon supplier: Blue Coral


In late July 2016, online grocery store Kate and Kimi http://www.kateandkimi.com introduced a new range of farmed salmon along with a partnership with 'Blue Coral Seafood Cooperative'.

Just a few days after launching the products, Kate and Kimi provided a link to the Blue Coral website (http://www.bluecoralcoop.com/)

The site basically consists of 3 pages with very little information. In fact, we are not even told where the Chinese based salmon farm is located. What we get instead are some pictures, a map and ramblings of their company's history and values.

"3 best friends" and 30 years of history


Accoding to the "About us" section, Blue Coral claims they were founded over 30 years ago by three best friends: Matthew Holmes, Gilles Laliberte and Tom L. Higgins. We see pictures of three elderly men as the site states:

Don’t let the suits fool you, we are all deep sea fishermen at heart. 1 Brit, 1 Frenchman & 1 Scot. We met in the late 70’s when the concept of fish farming on the continent was in its infancy. Guidelines and regulations were still a decade away but the 3 of us saw the perils of overfishing and depleting reserves.


Origin story of a large importer

In fact, it all started with our first love – Salmon. I think between the 3 of us we could write a book on Salmon. Salmon is where we initially focussed our energies. There was a time when we were the largest importers of wild salmon into continental europe.


Determined passion for sustainability

[url]Our Salmon was the rage in London, Paris and New York. But as feedstock quality decreased, so fish quality decreased and pricing decreased and we learnt that Restaurants want a balance of Price & Quality. That was close to 3 decades ago and it was a valuable lesson for us. Little naive fishermen grew up but never lost their zeal and determination to “DO GOOD”.[/url]

A tradition of friendship and quality

We, as fishermen, learnt early on that the large corporate fishing practices were not sustainable and we came to understand that as the 90’s became the 00’s that passionate and deliberately minded chefs were still demanding top quality, fresh and sustainable seafood items.

We have been told many times over the years “You cannot make a difference – you cannot change the lowest common denominator”. We beg to differ, 30+ years on and 3 best friends continually see growth in sustainability.


One look at the website and it's clear Blue Coral isn't investing heavily in online marketing. However, based on their unique 30-year old company history, you would think 'Blue Coral Seafood Cooperative' would have some online footprint before joining Kate and Kimi. There is none.

Website registration information

According to Who Is (http://whois.domaintoosl/bluecoralcoop.com) the Blue Coral website was registered on 10 May 2016; the company states it has been in operation for over 30 years and, as of 2013, working with 14 distributors in 21 countries. (http://bluecoralcoop.com/sourcing/).

Until Kate and Kimi provided a link to the Blue Coral website, they had zero online presence. Perhaps they were just late to embrace the Internet.

After further checking, the website's registrant address is Jinshajiang Road, Shanghai. Kate and Kimi's office address is Jinshajiang Road, Shanghai.

The registrant organization is registered under 'huqiaoqiao', with the contact email address listed as: jojohuqiaoqiao@xxxx.com. On LinkedIn, 'Jojo Hu' is listed as the Operations Director of Kate and Kimi.

Blue Coral's founder's

Blue Coral's "About Us" page displays pictures of the "3 best friends" who are "1 Brit, 1 Frenchman & 1 Scot'.

Using Google's search by image and Tin Eye for these photos revealed some interesting results.

The first face belongs to one Frank Zaballos. Frank sits on the board of trustees of Bayview Community, a retirement home in Seattle, USA.

The second face belongs to one Tore Lindholme. Tore is an Associate Professor at the Norwegian Center for Human Rights, University of Oslo.

The third face belongs to one Sam Rogers. Sam is a retired Landscape Architect Professor at the University of Tennessee.

Other images on Blue Coral's site


Additional image searches show the picture of the fishing boat on the "Fishing, Sourcing & Processing" page comes from a National Geographic documentary on commercial salmon fishing in Alaska.

And the picture of the salmon processing facility is of a Loop Cold Storage facility in Texas, hosted on the website of Johnny Q Photography.(http://johnnyqphotography.com)

So where is Kate & Kimi's Salmon (and chicken) actually from?


As far as the location of Kate and Kimi's supplier and the source of the salmon that they are selling (http://kateandkimi.com/salmon/fresh.html) Blue Coral's site states their farm is in 'Northern China'. Sure it is possible to farm salmon in Northern China, however without a factual claim to the source, we have no idea o the quality of the salmon or any real details of what Kate and Kimi are actually selling.

In the beginning of August, Kate and Kimi announced "Cloverdale" as their new source of hormone and antibiotic free chicken. (http://www.kateandkimi.com/meat-fish/po ... ultry.html. According to Kate and Kimi, Cloverdale is "a Canada based, family owned 100% antibiotic-free and hormone-free poultry producer." Besides this site and the information shared from Kate and Kimi, there is no other online evidence of this company either.

Who are Kate and Kimi?

Kate and Kimi are "two expat mums" who met in Shanghai in 2009 when their kids attended the same school. Together they shared stories and concerns about food safety for their kids, and from there the business began.

Back in August 2009, at the start of a new school semester, I had the pleasure of meeting Kimiko. Our children were attending the same school and were of similar ages. Kimi and I shared stories and similar concerns - what we worried about most was about the food quality in China, particularly in those days, vegetables.

From the top chefs we heard of a small but passionate grower - Gusto Fine Foods. After meeting with Richie and Jojo, and after visiting farms with them numerous times, we decided that this was the company and these were the people into whose hands we were prepared to put our families health.

We pushed them to deliver all the way out to JinQiao, and we eventually convinced them to go online. When Kimi and I decided to launch the community-based website, we knew that Gusto would be our biggest ally. So much so that they decided to put all of their emphasis into our website and gathered as many passionate people to join them.

http://www.kateandkimi.com/thekkstory/

Given the questionable story of Blue Coral, whose "best friend" founders are actually a retired American, a Norwegian professor and a retired landscape architect, we have to ask...who are "Kate" and "Kimi"? Do they even exist? Has anyone ever met them? Are there any pictures of them anywhere online? Please read Kate and Kimi's story as told through the "online diary timeline" of "Katherine".
http://www.kateandkimi.com/thekkstory/

They both had to return to their home countries shortly after starting the business in 2013. They left the company in the hands of Richie Gelber, aka 'Farmer Richie' and his business partner Jojo. Yet, there is no hard evidence that they ever existed in the first place.

Kate and Kimi are not just lying to expats either. On their Chinese website, Meal and Fun (http://www.mealandfun.com/mfstory) they conveniently mention that the company was started by three women: Kate, Kimi and a Chinese mother called 'Crystal' who was also concerned for food safety.

Complete and systematic deception


Everyone knows that the food industry in China has its challenges and there are many problems that need to be fixed. But an expat owned and expat trusted company, blatantly lying about their founder's story, who their suppliers are and where their food is coming from is despicable. Especially a brand that is built upon the "express purposes of traceability" and whose main slogan is "Community Trusted".

Read Kate and Kimi's "About Us" section:

The Big Question: Why are We Here? What are We Trying to Achieve?

Hi, this is Katherine of Kate and Kimi. When Kimiko and I convinced Richie of Gusto Fine Foods to join forces back in 2013, it was for the express purpose of traceability. We were desperate to know where our vegetables came from. As we met and spoke with suppliers for meat and fish we began to hear all the food safety scandals that were publicized and a few that never made it into the mainstream news. We were horrified. It became clear that as we discussed who we wanted to be and what we stood for, the following statement summed it up:

TRACEABILITY - Knowing the importer, the manufacturer & the grower and ensuring that their attention to logistics is the number one priority. Giving credit to every supplier and never hiding who they are. Kate and Kimi is NOT a food brand. We are not bakers and chefs but we make sure that whatever is sold is of TOP quality.

But is this all? Is this all that we are? No absolutely not. Sure Traceability is extremely important but it is a cold scientific term and we certainly are not cold nor scientific. Kimi lived in Europe with her husband for many years and dreamed of Hummus and other Dips, whereas I loved to go to the farmers' markets here in Shanghai and I loved all the little tastes of home that I found. No, we are more than just cold science we are also about the pure passion of food.


http://www.kateandkimi.com/about_us/

Please read that again.

TRACEABILITY - Knowing the importer, the manufacturer & the grower and ensuring that their attention to logistics is the number one priority. Giving credit to every supplier and never hiding who they are.

We deserve to know the traceability of Blue Coral, Kate, Kimi and all the food that we eat.

Please share, comment and get to the bottom of this expat scandal, as this systematic deception of the trusting community needs to be exposed.

*Writers note: I am a longtime Shanghai expat and passionate foodie who did some simple digging. This is clearly a fraudulent and perhaps dangerous company who should be exposed. Therefore, due to the sensitive nature of the content I will be publishing this anonymously.
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Re: Shanghai's Community Trusted Online Grocery Store??

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:17 am

anonymous7890 wrote:Therefore, due to the sensitive nature of the content I will be publishing this anonymously.

Interesting. Shades of another (or the same?) competitor's earlier attempts to ruin Kate and Kimi's business. Frankly, I don't care. The salmon and chicken I get from Kate and Kimi is second to none and I'll keep ordering.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby amandhallvard » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:34 am

Interesting. Shades of another (or the same?) competitor's earlier attempts to ruin Kate and Kimi's business. Frankly, I don't care. The salmon and chicken I get from Kate and Kimi is second to none and I'll keep ordering.


Are you crazy?! Firstly, even if a competitor were to call out Kate and Kimi's illegal stuff then that is absolutely the right thing to do. Secondly, you're willing to pay your hard earned cash on meat and fish that could be from who-knows-where?! Thirdly, if this were business in the West, they would be shut down, fined etc. immediately. China needs to sort itself out, this is ridiculous. Fourthly, maybe the reason that fish is second to none is because it'd pumped full of crap by whoever is supplying kate and kimi - you'd still order that? You should go the wet market instead, at least you know for sure the stuff is sketchy!!
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:03 am

You sound a little crazy yourself. I've been a KandK customer since they started. I know good quality food when I see it and taste it. You appear to be taking an anonymous contributor's claims at face value. Who's crazy?
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby amandhallvard » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:10 am

Dude, you can check that blue coral website is fake yourself... http://www.bluecoralcoop.com/ It's not about authenticity, the poster has left clear proof - try the google image search yourself.

Anonymous or not Kate and kimi has been called out for their bullfeces. If you wanna remain faithful to that, go ahead, by all means!
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby aliceshanghai » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:19 pm

Wow. A friend just sent me this link and I don't know whether to laugh or cry....

Our Salmon was the rage in London, Paris and New York.


Who talks like this?

On a very basic level this is economic fraud. Kate and Kimi are duping customers into paying a premium price for a FAKE product.

Secondly, where does this salmon actually come from? Who's to say that it isn't laden with heavy metals?
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby chingiskhan » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:52 pm

It's true that the bluecoral website is registered to a Chinese person Qiao Qiao Hu and registered to a Shanghai address. So clearly they aren't a European company. I'm also a long time K&K customer by the way.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:08 pm

Is this the usual case of a well-established, well-respected going concern being taken over by Chinese interests? Prices up, quality down etc etc. Quite prepared to believe there's something "fishy", sorry, going on but have to say that before this (and this situation is very recent) KandK were exemplary.
Last edited by bigroh74 on Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby amandhallvard » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:22 pm

@bigroh74 really makes no sense. How can an exemplary company be willing to fake supply chain by creating this whole back story and fake website? It's just not right. Imagine the national and international outcry if carrefour or tesco or auchan were doing the same thing.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:24 pm

Tesco were recently in trouble over fake farm names. Not quite the same but no one is innocent. To answer the how question, it's my feeling that maybe there has been a change at the top with local interests involved. Happens a lot, as we know. Chinese interests see a success and want to get in on the act. Take this site (shexpat) for example.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... alone.html
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:32 pm

I notice, having been out of the country for a month, that KandK have changed suppliers for both their chicken and their salmon. I haven't yet tried the new produce, maybe I won't bother now. But previously, as I said and will stand by, the salmon and chicken were great.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby amandhallvard » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:41 pm

So exactly - Tesco faked farms and there was a national outcry. Kate and kimi fake suppliers, i'm assuming there should be an equal outcry.

And your saying a change in Kate and kimis leadership - a move to chinese leadership - has made this happen? The farmer richie guy is american so unless he's finally disappeared, it looks like the blame rests on him.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:43 pm

I'm saying I suspect there has been a Chinese takeover of some sort. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me. The "fakery" seems to have been so badly done that I can't believe Richie or any of the original movers was involved. I have, of course, been wrong before.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby amandhallvard » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:54 pm

Not all Chinese companies operate illegally. And Im sure if a Chinese company were to commit fraud there would be hell to pay.

Come on man, of course they know! Look at the fake website, then look at the kate and kimi website. They are so similar. And besides, like the article said, if you do your own research its obvious that the owner of the website is the logistics manager at kate and kimi - who is also Richie's wife. Come on.
Last edited by amandhallvard on Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:57 pm

amandhallvard wrote:Not all Chinese companies operate illegally

Not what I'm saying. If you've been here as long as I have you will be aware that foreign enterprises, no matter how small, who do well are often taken over by local interests and the rot begins. Established Chinese companies are quite a different matter.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby amandhallvard » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:41 pm

So Kate and kimi is starting to rot?
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby aliceshanghai » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:44 pm

Has anyone reached out to Kate and Kimi for their response? And do those three men know that their identities have been taken? It would be interesting to see what they have to say....
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby amandhallvard » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:53 pm

aha! How convenient that the images of those poor old guys and all the backstory has changed from the Kate and kimis website! Seems like they know they've been caught.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby mod4 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:18 pm

Bearing in mind we can make connections between IP addresses, are we going to continue this debate? Oh yeah, at least one person here has also posted from the same address as a rival to Kate&Kimi!

Image
http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/article/eight-reasons-write-us-26965.html
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby gino » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:39 pm

Couple a years ago I bought frozen fish (asfaik remember cod fish) from k&k and did not like it at all. Tasted like rubber.

These days I am buying frozen Salmon from IKEA. Though this is also Made in China. :?
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:49 pm

mod4 wrote:Oh yeah, at least one person here has also posted from the same address as a rival to Kate&Kimi!

As I suspected...
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:50 pm

amandhallvard wrote:So Kate and kimi is starting to rot?

I think you are just deliberately misunderstanding my posts.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:40 pm

gino wrote:Couple a years ago I bought frozen fish (asfaik remember cod fish) from k&k and did not like it at all. Tasted like rubber.

A quick Google search reveals: "Fish will go rubbery if it is overcooked or if it has been frozen before cooking."
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:06 pm

amandhallvard wrote:aha! How convenient that the images of those poor old guys and all the backstory has changed from the Kate and kimis website! Seems like they know they've been caught.

I saw that but not reading anything into it at the moment. You could presume KandK are investigating after realising they may have been duped by their new suppliers. Maybe we're too quick to jump to conclusions. Innocent until proved guilty and all that. Odd that we haven't heard anything else from the OP (presumably the competitor mentioned by Mods).
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby gino » Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:39 pm

bigroh74 wrote:
gino wrote:Couple a years ago I bought frozen fish (asfaik remember cod fish) from k&k and did not like it at all. Tasted like rubber.

A quick Google search reveals: "Fish will go rubbery if it is overcooked or if it has been frozen before cooking."


1. Interestingly this doesn't happen to IKEA fish
2. It doesn't happen to most frozen fish served in SH restaurants either

I am just buying meat from them. Quality is OK.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:45 pm

gino wrote:
bigroh74 wrote:
gino wrote:Couple a years ago I bought frozen fish (asfaik remember cod fish) from k&k and did not like it at all. Tasted like rubber.

A quick Google search reveals: "Fish will go rubbery if it is overcooked or if it has been frozen before cooking."


1. Interestingly this doesn't happen to IKEA fish
2. It doesn't happen to most frozen fish served in SH restaurants either

I am just buying meat from them. Quality is OK.

Depends how it's cooked. The quote related specifically to cod.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby freddiesdead » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:40 pm

bigroh74 wrote:
mod4 wrote:Oh yeah, at least one person here has also posted from the same address as a rival to Kate&Kimi!

As I suspected...

If it's the truth, who cares ?

And the whole story about "sustainable salmon" and all that ... "Factory fishing" for salmon ? Horseshit. They are caught on longlines, individually. And Cloverdale is in northern California.

Plus what would England, France and Scotland know about quality salmon ? The good ones come from the northwest. Calling an Atlantic salmon "salmon" is like calling longxia a lobster.

(Yes, I know the Norvegians took up salmon farming. But that's cuz they have fjords they can dam up. Where are you going to grow salmon in north China, the songhuajiang ? Right. Totally wrong environment. I wouldn't be surprised if "Blue Coral" salmon were dyed catfish.

Plus coral and salmon ? C'mon. Gravel maybe but coral ? This is like a website by someone who heard about salmon once but never saw one.)

squawcandy.jpg

anybody see any coral ?

I don't know about Kate and Kimi but the whole Blue Coral thing stinks like a ten-day-dead fish.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:51 pm

freddiesdead wrote:
bigroh74 wrote:
mod4 wrote:Oh yeah, at least one person here has also posted from the same address as a rival to Kate&Kimi!

As I suspected...

If it's the truth, who cares ?

You obviously don't know the history, and I won't bore you with it. I had thought it was just that, history.
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Re: Kate&Kimi

Postby XiaoyuShanghai » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:15 pm

Shocked! Cloverdale chicken has suddenly disappeared from KK website?!

What ever be the case - KK faking suppliers or suppliers duping them - I feel cheated! If they argue the second case, then don't they check their suppliers properly!!!! :shock: :shock:
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